vicsant
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Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1?
Hi,
Will overclocking the Intel i7-2600K give a substantial performance boost with Sonar X1, Win7 64bit?
Is it worth the extra cost, or will the i7-2600 be enough?
Thanks,
Vic
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Hill62
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1?
2011/10/16 09:27:19
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☄ Helpful
The i7-2600k has unlocked cpu's. Current motherboards with the P67 or Z68 chipset allow for auto-over clocking, bringing the speed from 3.4GHz often to over 4 GHz. The k series cpu's are designed to work that way, stable and safe. Specific results vary from cpu to cpu, cooling options etc.
There is only a $20 dollar difference (on Newegg.com) between the 2 processors. To me, short and long term, it is a no brainer to get the unlockable cpu, as long as you have a motherboard with the P67 or Z68 chipset. And I would highly recommend that you get one of those with the cpu purchase if you don'e have one already.
*Note: Both chipsets offer similar performance. The Z68 takes advantage of newer technologies (such as encoding on die and SSD caching) , but the base cpu performance is the same technology.
The most substantial boost is going from earlier generation cpu's to the i7 series with one of those chipsets. The i7-2600k is the best cpu available and most bang for the buck at this time in my opinion.
Good luck with your new build :-)
Samplitude Pro X3 Suite (x64), (SONAR Platinum ∞ ), Sonar V-Studio 100, AKAI APC20, Axiom Pro 62, Win10 1703 (x64), i7-2600k 3.4 GHz , 16 GB DDR3, ASUS P8Z68 DELUXE, 250 GB SSD (OS), 3 x 450GB SATA 10K (Projects/Samples), GeForce GTX 1060 6GB, ASUS 24" Monitors
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jbow
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1?
2011/10/16 09:53:36
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Great, concise answer Hill. I learned from it. I hope you post more often (if you have time).
Thanks,
Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1?
2011/10/16 11:06:14
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I overclock an E6600 from 2.4 to 3.0 Ghz. I have had it as high as 3.2 but I'm on stock cooling and temps were getting a bit high. I've also tightened up the RAM timing but I had to knock those back recently when I started getting a lot of random crashes.
I get about 10 - 15% less CPU usage compared to stock at the moment and on my system that's a Tesco (every little helps).
If you do go that route get a good stress tester (I use heavy load) and run it overnight. If it'll take 100% CPU usage for 7 or 8 hours X1 isn't going to push it any harder.
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maximumpower
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1?
2011/10/16 11:20:34
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If you are going to overclock, keep everything cool. I ended up with a self contained water cooler and a new case. I am shocked by how cool everything runs in my system. My current i7-2600k based system is by far the most powerful system I have built and by far the coolest. Good luck!
Win 10 (64 bit), i7-2600k 3.4GHz , 8 GB RAM, SATA III (500GB SSD - System, 2TB WD Black - Data), Sonar Platinum x64, m-audio Profire 610
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6strings2
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/16 15:09:47
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Auto-OC is awesome. However---big however-- the catch w/ OCing. I have a laptop that auto-ocs. If it burns, Intel replaces it without griping. However, if you use a "home recipe" for specs or one you found on the net with a 3nrd party OC utility-if it dies, you are going to be out large change. If you are running in the range of 4 without much of the juice coming from a GPU ---your guarantee is void. Fry it-buy a new one.
The best assessor of the sound you create is still your two ears and what lies between them-brains. And a PC that renders music @light speed.......
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1?
2011/10/16 15:16:36
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☄ Helpful
Will overclocking the Intel i7-2600K give a substantial performance boost with Sonar X1, Win7 64bit? Is it worth the extra cost, or will the i7-2600 be enough? Hi Vic, The cost difference isn't very much. If you're making extensive use of soft-synths... or you're working with dense projects... or you're wanting to push the limits of low-latency performance, it's absolutely worth the extra cost (which isn't much). Get the 2600k Make sure to use a quality 3rd party cooler Make sure to use a quality motherboard that was built for stable OC
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Alegria
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/16 15:18:47
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There is no need to overclock the 2600k as it offers more than enough power to run anything you throw at it. Overclocking will reduce the lifespan of the chip. But to each his own I guess.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/16 16:26:15
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Overclocking will reduce the lifespan of the chip. If you OC the 2600k using appropriate hardware (and common sense), it won't have a significant impact on the CPU's lifespan. If you crank the vCore above 1.4v... getting "greedy" with the OC... or you let the CPU run hot, then yes... you'll likely diminish the lifespan of the CPU. With a "controlled" OC, you can easily get 3+ years of service from the 2600k. Look at past examples. I know folks who ran the Celeron 300a OC'd for 10+ years. (Passed down as 'office' machines once too old/slow for effective DAW use) Many folks have been running a Q6600 at 3GHz for over 4 years. The Q9550 at 3.4GHz for over 3 years Speaking for myself, I don't care about the lifespan of a CPU beyond ~5 years. To stay current with software (at reasonable performance levels), you're forced to upgrade within a 3-5 year window. If you knock 2 years off a 10-20-year CPU life expectancy... it's kind of a moot point.  The CPU will most likely be recycled or in a land-fill long before it's an issue. For obvious reasons (work), my hardware gets replaced long before the 3-year mark. Thus, I'll take the $300 CPU that delivers the performance of a $1000 CPU. I don't always need the full speed, but it's useful when pushing heavy loads at the lowest possible latency (effective software based input-monitoring/etc). As with most things in life, moderation and common-sense ensure a positive end result.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/16 16:51:51
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My E6600 has been at 3.0 for about 5 years now, that's on stock cooling as well.........
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vicsant
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/16 22:55:25
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Thanks for all the replies, gents! Current motherboards with the P67 or Z68 chipset allow for auto-over clocking Can you recommend any current MBs from Giga or Asus with these chipsets? How "auto" is auto overclocking? Is it as simple as changing some bios settings in the MB? Can you easily revert back to the chip's stock speed when working on simpler projects? How dangerous is overheating...isn't there a feature in today's MB that will automatically shutdown the PC once the temp gets close to a certain threshold? Thanks again.
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Guitslinger
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/16 23:41:22
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Most of the latest motherboards have manual overclocking switches on them, or you can auto overclock using BIOS settings. The good thing about the auto overclocking is that it only engages when you need it, which will extend the life of the components.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 02:01:35
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I've got a relatively old AsusP5B and that makes overclocking a synch. It will auto recover a BIOS. Has OC profiles, 2 onboard and a facility for saving others to a USB stick. You can easily load a safe default if need be. The comp just won't start if I get too adventurous, switch off at mains for 30 secs turn it back on and it'll allow me to boot to BIOS to change settings.
I'm no OC expert but the board makes it really easy, I imagine they've only got even better since. I'm hoping to find out in the next few months when my setup gets its 5 year rebuild.
If I go too far with temps it will shut down but if you run a stress test overnight and it gets through that, nothing you use it for will work it harder. I always stress test for at least 6 or 7 hours when I first set up a profile.
Lesson I did learn earlier was always drop back to defaults if you get any strange problems. It should be obvious to do that really but my system had been on it's profile for ages when my problems started so I didn't suspect the OC. Turned out to be my memory suddenly didn't like it's tight timings for some reason. Memtest picked that up really quickly, dropped the timings a notch and all is well now.
Some 'essentials' (all freebies BTW) CPU-Z, Memtest, Heavy Load, Coretemp, Speedfan.
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JClosed
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 04:42:41
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☄ Helpful
While OC can improve your system, there are a few drawbacks to consider.
First of all - overclocking does not improve stability of the system. Do not forget some parts are designed to be used within narrow tolerances (to cut costs), and constantly pushing those parts "over the edge" can give stability problems later on (like FastBikerBoy can admit). In some cases this damage can be permanently, and cannot resolved by clocking down. In those cases your hardware have to be replaced. This is not happening fast, but I sure have seen cases of damaged systems that had to be replaced.
Secondly - do not forget the software and additional hardware we are using heavenly depends on timing. When you start overclocking some parts ogf the computer speed up, while some other parts (especially sound cards, interfaces like FireWire, video etc.) depend on exact timings. It is fully possible the CPU and memory function great under overclocking, while the grapical interface shows artifacts and anomalies or your soundcard stops working correctly.
This goes for software as well. If you have strange effects or just badly working software (software gets more buggy), stop overclocking! This goes especially when you have strange bugs that other people cannot reproduce.
I have deceided to never overclock a sytem where I am depending on. While overclocking works good in most cases and most people will not have any problems, I do not take any risk. And it shows! All my critical systems are rock-stable!
Do I never overclock? Of course I do, but only with gaming or recreational systems that are used for fun and nothing else.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 12:05:09
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First of all - overclocking does not improve stability of the system. Do not forget some parts are designed to be used within narrow tolerances (to cut costs), and constantly pushing those parts "over the edge" can give stability problems later on (like FastBikerBoy can admit). In some cases this damage can be permanently, and cannot resolved by clocking down. In those cases your hardware have to be replaced. This is not happening fast, but I sure have seen cases of damaged systems that had to be replaced. Secondly - do not forget the software and additional hardware we are using heavenly depends on timing. When you start overclocking some parts ogf the computer speed up, while some other parts (especially sound cards, interfaces like FireWire, video etc.) depend on exact timings. It is fully possible the CPU and memory function great under overclocking, while the grapical interface shows artifacts and anomalies or your soundcard stops working correctly. This goes for software as well. If you have strange effects or just badly working software (software gets more buggy), stop overclocking! This goes especially when you have strange bugs that other people cannot reproduce. I have deceided to never overclock a sytem where I am depending on. While overclocking works good in most cases and most people will not have any problems, I do not take any risk. And it shows! All my critical systems are rock-stable! Do I never overclock? Of course I do, but only with gaming or recreational systems that are used for fun and nothing else. All valid points... If you're going to OC, it needs to be done with care: -You need to start with the right hardware -You need to know the consise settings to setup a stable OC (not changing bus/RAM speed) -You need to have realistic expectations on how far you can increase clock-speed With the right motherboard, you won't be changing the timing of the PCI/e bus, RAM, etc. The only thing you'll be increasing is the clock speed of the CPU. Once the OC is setup, you need to run a hard-core stress-test on the machine. If the system can run full tilt for 12 solid hours (with zero errors), then it's rock-solid stable (whether over-clocked or not). With the right configuration, an over-clocked machine can be 100% stable.
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JClosed
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 12:35:53
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Well - of coarse you are right Jim! Over-clocking can give a very stable system, but (as you said rightfully if you read in-between the lines) only if someone is know what he/she/it is doing, and makes a careful choice when picking up the components like motherboard etc. Making wrong choices here can give a lot of trouble. If you are uncertain you can better let someone else assemble your system - and I seem to recall there are some people that just doing those things to be found on this forum...;-).
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Alegria
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 15:17:21
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In the context of a dedicated DAW with the 2600k, my question at this point would be: Does over-clocking improve the DPC latency? This would be the only incentive IMHO that might make me take a closer look at OC'ing. @ Jim Roseberry What kind of latency results (numbers) are you achieving with your optimized builds? Or more specifically, what numbers should I expect in a well tuned dedicated DAW based on the 2600k on Win 7? For having done quite a bit of research on this, I know for example that single digit results were possible on Win XP, but this is not the case with win 7. Anything around the 100us mark would be considered excellent to stream audio without drop-outs. Any info on this would be great. Note: It's nice to see everyone getting involved in a mutually respectful manner with great points from both sides of this debate.
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StarTekh
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 15:27:11
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Its understood that all intel processors are overclockd, thus further overclocking is just not adviseable, dammage to the processor instability and a host of other problems crop-up when you oveclock a processor, if your not happy with the performance of your 2600k processor, buy a more powerfull processor/system. overclocking is not a option on a stable system !!!
post edited by StarTekh - 2011/10/17 17:45:36
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Splat 
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 17:42:46
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Don't bother overclocking, you've got enough power as it is. Spend your time making music rather than adjusting hardware and tweaking every few hours, and get plenty of fast memory (8gb+).
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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don4777
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 17:46:44
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StarTekh
Its understood that all intel processors are overclockd, thus further overclocking is just not adviseable, dammage to the processor instability and a host of other problems crop-up when
you oveclock a processor, if your not happy with the performance os your 2600k processor, buy a more powerfull processor/system.
overclocking is not a option on a stable system !!!
Out of curiosity, what are you basing your position on? I know Jim is basing his position on available technical information and personal experience.. It would appear that the 2600k is unlocked specifically so it can be overclocked. Why would Intel offer it as an option as opposed to just selling the 2600? I personally haven't researched this so I am sincerely interested in the information you used to form your position. Thanks, Don
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StarTekh
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 18:34:19
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Don4777: It would appear that the 2600k is unlocked specifically so it can be overclocked, this is correct ..but dammage can happen to the processor,and other parts of the system !!
it understood that system stability is key to any hard disk recorder
this base's on personaly talks with intel and ms
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 20:13:36
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Does over-clocking improve the DPC latency? This would be the only incentive IMHO that might make me take a closer look at OC'ing. Over-clocking has little/no affect on DPC latency. It's already low/consistent... The exact figure depends on exactly what's in the DAW. The build I'm looking at now idles between 4-12uSec (2600k running at 4.5GHz) BTW, I don't think it's necessary for everyone to OC. But under controlled conditions, it's a nice means of stretching bang-for-the-buck. If you ever do video rendering... you'll want every speed advantage you can get. Even just rendering finished audio into .mov files (at higher res)... Makes audio look downright light-weight.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 20:28:12
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overclocking is not a option on a stable system !!! I can understand why you wouldn't want/need to OC... But to say that any OC of the 2600k (under any conditions) is inherently "unstable" is just wrong. I've got two machines that run 24-7 at 4.5GHz. Both can sustain 100% load (full tilt) across all CPU cores with zero errors... for days on end. If your machine can do that... it's rock-solid... whether it's over-clocked or not. As was mentioned, Intel themselves designed the 2600k specifically for (important word here) *controlled* over-clocking. The CPU is multiplier unlocked from the factory. If you approach the situation with the right hardware/knowledge, you can run the 2600k completely stable at 4.5GHz. It's not a guess/hypothesis...
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 20:30:42
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Don't bother overclocking, you've got enough power as it is. Spend your time making music rather than adjusting hardware and tweaking every few hours Hey Alex... Uhhh, if you setup the OC properly, you'll never have to tweak/change anything. You should test the machine thoroughly (to verify stability)... but you should also do that with a machine running at stock speed.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 20:47:06
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For sake of clarity... so I'm not misunderstood here: I don't think everyone should over-clock their CPU. Some CPUs are better candidates than others. ie: Virtually every Q6600 would run at 3GHz with no increase in vCore. If you don't know what you're doing... don't over-clock your CPU. The 2600k was specifically designed for controlled over-clocking (multipier unlocked from Intel). You may or may not need the extra speed. If you want/need the extra speed, take a measured/controlled approach (right hardware/settings and don't push the OC too far)... and you'll be fine.
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Alegria
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 20:58:35
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"Jim Roseberry"
The build I'm looking at now idles between 4-12uSec (2600k running at 4.5GHz) Which OS is it running on? 32 or 64 bits? Are all your builds this efficient or is this a special "Roseberry" build? "Jim Roseberry"
BTW, I don't think it's necessary for everyone to OC. I know and I agree.
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StarTekh
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 21:06:54
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Its your processor and your right to overclock it, but its sold as a
3.4ghz unit and tops out at 3.8 as you well know, furthermore only
a % of i7's overclock, il stick to my post. if you need a more powerfull system, buy it !
8 cores 16 threads !!
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 21:26:45
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Which OS is it running on? 32 or 64 bits? Are all your builds this efficient or is this a special "Roseberry" build? I don't use anything but Win7x64. Same build that we do for clients... Again, some peripherals could raise DPC latency. (WiFi being an obvious example) This build was designed specifically to achieve low/consistent DPC latency. I'm known for being a little obsessive about it.
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Alegria
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 21:42:48
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"Jim Roseberry"
I'm known for being a little obsessive about it. I would expect a pro DAW builder to be excessively obsessive about such things, wear very thick glasses and stutter/mumble all the time.  As expected, your numbers are a tad better than mine, but not by much.  And thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Overclocking: Better performance in Sonar X1? OC is a yes, but deal
2011/10/17 21:43:44
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furthermore only a % of i7's overclock What percentage... where do you get the figures? Have you done extensive testing? (Rhetorical question) A stable machine is a stable machine... The stress-test tells all A machine that can sustain 100% load with zero errors (indefinitely) is the very definition of rock-solid. The fact that it's over-clocked (or not) is quite moot. A machine is either 100% stable... or not. There is no gray area.
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