Ozone and er... simulated 24 bit overhead...

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hellogoodbye
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2012/10/28 09:01:12 (permalink)

Ozone and er... simulated 24 bit overhead...

So... I suppose you are curious what that topic title is about...? Okay, here's my story.
 
I work in 24 bit because it's better then 16 bit. More overhead etc. The thing is however that I ONLY work with VSTi's: the ONLY thing I really actually record as audio are vocals. Now I have read over and over again that when you work with 24 bit you should mix with some overhead so you should NOT try to get all levels as close to 0 dB as possible: you could as well aim for something like -8 or -12. Now I always presumed this was true for real audio and not for VSTi's, so... I always, out of habit I suppose, tried to get everything as close to 0 dB as possible.
 
Right now I am working on some old projects, adding new vocals and remixing them. I noticed I have problems getting things in balance and getting things loud enough and I think it has a lot to do with everything being mixed as close to the limit as possible.
 
This weekend I fooled around with the Ozone 5 demo (as far as possible because I found out someone else already played with that demo so I can only demo it with brief pauses all the freakin' time... ). I really like the Master Rock Pop preset because it totally fits my music. I probably need to tweak that preset a little (tone things down a little) but overall it sounds okay.
 
However, I also have the idea things get a  bit too full and loud because of my mix being on the edge...
 
Now here comes the final question. I am thinking about lowering the overall volume of my mix, bringing it down to a level that everyone says is better for a 24 bit project. This way the music that gets into Ozone isn't loud or squashed already and so Ozone will have more room to do its thing without immediately squashing the entore project. I think this will result in more er... air in the song... right...?
 
To do this I have various options:
 
1. I could use the offset on each end every track and lower them ALL with a specific number. But... I already used the offset to fix the mix of tracks that had complicated volume envelopes. So now I doubt if I will subtract let's say 10 from every setting, will that bring my project to an overall -10 volume... even if this means some tracks will get an offset of -10 and other an offset like -13 or -14,5...?
 
2. I could simply lower the volume of the master bus! But since I have Ozone in the master bus, I doubt if that will work okay...? Maybe I should add a special bus for Ozone and route the master to that bus: I guess that DOES make a difference...?
 
3. I could simply lower the input in Ozone...?
 
So... what would be the best thing to do...?
 
P.S. Yes, I know almost everybody thinks Ozone presets suck but I like what I get, with a little tweaking, so don't simply say I shouldn't use Ozone or I shouldn't use presets... I just wonder how I can optimally feed my music to Ozone right now without too much work...
 
If you have no clue what I am on about, feel free to do so!
P.S. I work with Sonar 8.5 PE 64 bits on Windows 7.
post edited by hellogoodbye - 2012/10/28 09:32:43

Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's. 
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Ozone and er... simulated 24 bit overhead... 2012/10/28 09:39:15 (permalink)


    I read your post a few times.

    I honestly, and sincerely, think you have already answered your questions.


    Just follow your instinct on this, bring the levels down and search out a new balance for your new mix.


    best regards,
    mike


    #2
    Sidroe
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    Re:Ozone and er... simulated 24 bit overhead... 2012/10/28 14:59:10 (permalink)
    I would try to lower the tracks volumes with the volume sliders. The actual gain of the recorded wav file is going to have an impact on how hard it hits any FX in the bins. As far as Ozone, I have used 4, then 5 for almost every project I've done since I got them. I ALWAYS look thru the presets as a starting point and then tweak to taste and save. Presets are really overly done to make you go WOW! when you hear a difference. I find that true about every product out there. Whether it's a plugin or FX box. Just make sure you save the patch you tweaked with your initials or some custom name so you aren't constantly trying to find that preset you started out with.

    Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
    #3
    bitflipper
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    Re:Ozone and er... simulated 24 bit overhead... 2012/10/29 09:33:37 (permalink)
    Simple solution: lower Ozone's Input fader until the peak meters above it show a maximum value of around -6db, then adjust the volume maximizer threshold to taste.

    Nit-picky corrections: the term is "headroom", not "overhead", and 24 bits does not give you more of it.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #4
    hellogoodbye
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    Re:Ozone and er... simulated 24 bit overhead... 2012/10/29 11:31:12 (permalink)
    Thanks, that's a great simple solution. 


    BTW I noticed using Ozone made me aware of a lot of errors in my mixing. Because the presets tend to overdo everything a bit you also hear various things a bit better, like things that are too harsh or too mudddy etc. So while Ozone makes a lot of things easier to get done, it also made me recheck almost my entire mix, specially adding EQ to seperate instruments a bit more. I am more and more getting the hang of it and it's becoming easier and easier to get my mix right (or at least to my liking). When I listen to the mix I made last friday, before I tried Ozone, it's sounds flat and dull and 10 years old...  And Ozone is absolutely great to bring up the overall volume (without btw making the waveform one big block).


    Right now the Rock Indie preset is my favorite. I only (and mainly) need to get some more bass in it: don't know yet if I should do that only on the bass and drum tracks or on the entire mix... (Doing it on those tracks alone results in a bit too much seperation, so I might as well simply add a little low bass boost on the entire project...). Anyway, it's fun working with Ozone!

    Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's. 
    Check out Soundclick
    #5
    bitflipper
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    Re:Ozone and er... simulated 24 bit overhead... 2012/10/29 12:52:12 (permalink)
    Ozone really is one of the truly great production tools. It may no longer be the plugin du jour that it once was, but it still holds its own against every other current contender. I cannot speak to its presets, since in the 6+ years I've been using Ozone I've never actually used one, but I'd be inclined to treat them as learning aids rather than final solutions.

    As a general rule, you want EQ to be gentle on the master bus. If larger corrections (more than 2-3db) are needed, it's always better to go back into the mix and figure out which track or tracks are the best candidates to fill a spectral hole, or lighten up a band. It will be easier to achieve the desired result, and the end product will generally sound better if it's fixed at the track level.

    That said, there is one Ozone trick that can really help fatten up the bottom end, and that's the low band of the Exciter module. Set the lowest band to 120Hz and start bringing up the amount. Depending on the mix and how much help the low end needs, you might end up setting the amount to between 1 and 4. Even though you're adding harmonics, not bass, the effect is to make the bottom sound thicker and fatter. Be careful, though; a little goes a long way.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #6
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