Ozonians: Dithering question

The offshoot is, I may want to shoot for -1.0,-1.0 before uploading my mixes to YouTube, etc. rather than -0.5,-0.5.

bitflipper
Make sure you're enabling the "True Peak Limiting" option (under the threshold sliders in O7, don't know about O5). Measuring peaks is less precise at 44.1 than 48 KHz due to the greater time between samples. Turning this option on enables internal oversampling to get around that.
 

Bitflipper, I was really hoping you would reply as this has me really perplexed.
 
In Ozone 5 there is no "True Peak Limiting" option. And it is not a limiting issue as in #3 above in the original post. A song at 48/24 is dithered only (Maximizer and all other modules are off) and the original song at -0.5,-0.5 becomes 44.1/16 at -0.4,-0.3. this was attempted with two songs with similar results. Thus it is a Ozone dithering issue. I haven't checked it using only Sonar dithering.
 
That being said, in Ozone 5, in the dithering module, there is Auto-blanking, Limit Peaks, and Harmonic Suppression check boxes. I had them unchecked.
 
Do you think Limit Peaks is your "True Peak Limiting".
 
The help file below gives this info under dithering:
 
Auto-blanking
Selecting this option instructs Ozone to completely mute dither output (i.e. dither noise) when the input signal is completely silent (0 bits of audio) for at least 0.7 seconds. 

Limit Peaks
Dither noise is random in nature and has a very low amplitude. However, after noise shaping, especially in aggressive dithering modes, the high-frequency dither noise is significantly amplified, and the overall dither signal can show spurious peaks (up to -60 dB FS for a 16-bit quantization). If such high peaks are undesirable, you can enable the Limit Peaks option to effectively suppress the spurious peaks in the noise-shaped dither.
Suppress Harmonics
If, for some reason, any dithering noise is undesirable, simple truncation remains the only option. Truncation results in harmonic quantization distortion that adds overtones to the signal and distorts the timbre. In this case you can enable Suppress Harmonics option to slightly alter the truncation rules, moving the harmonic quantization distortion away from overtones of audible frequencies. This option doesn't create any random dithering noise floor. Instead it works more like truncation, but with better tonal quality in the resulting signal. This option is applicable only in the modes without dithering noise and without aggressive noise shaping.
 
Thanks again Bitflipper, I sincerely appreciate your response!
 
And yes I agree, were I to make a 44.1/16 or mp3 for upload, I would make it at -1.0 to -1.5 as opposed to -0.3 or -0.5 for my 48/24 mixes which I do upload unless they are for iTunes or YouTube, etc.

Bitflipper, Drewfx1, those last two comments help.
 
So the word is, when I initially limit using ozone, even though I am staying at 48/24, check Intersample Detection and this will then be of benefit should I eventually dither to 44.1/16 regardless of whether I use sonar or IK Multimedia or Pyro or Ozone. If I limit with another plugin, I assume there is no such feature. I had thought Ozone was a better dithering plugin than others but maybe not...I'm starting to see less benefit to Ozone as the years go by. I'm glad I did not upgrade to 7.
 
And secondly, I knew dithering is adding noise, but I didn't think it could add up to a half of dB in a 3 minute song.
 
Like I say, I've never checked this over the last ten years so it comes as a big surprise.
 
Thanks so much for the explanations. I don't think I've ever seen a caution statement anywhere e.g. "Dithering may add a dB or so to your peak values even when a limiter is on as is often the case in Ozone!"

drewfx1

robbyk 
And secondly, I knew dithering is adding noise, but I didn't think it could add up to a half of dB in a 3 minute song.
 

It should only add a much smaller fraction of a dB than .5dB (peak) at 16 bit levels.

drewfx1
 
Very cool explanation. Yes my range of increase has been up to 0.5 dB. You are right.
 
Now I think it's time to end my eMusician subscription (getting less and less applicable to my interests) and begin the arduous process of reading and rereading the wonderful Izotope guides for my evening wind down.
 
You all were a very big help on this!

bitflipper
iZotope says it is, natch. It may even be true. But the difference between the world's best dither algorithm and the crappiest one isn't huge, nor is it hugely important.
 

That is a very good point, probably a matter of degrees :)
 
I'm sure I also will stick with Mbit+, high, 16, normal, DC filter on as I have since the early days of Ozone 4.