PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in?

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Beepster
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2012/11/04 17:56:19 (permalink)

PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in?

I remember reading before I bought this thing that it even emulates the hardware version by POPPING when it kicks in if the signal is powerful enough (which I think is silly because who the heck wants nasty POPS in their mix?). In the same blurb it mentioned a setting or technique to avoid this but I forget what it was and the manual doesn't seem to mention it. I really would like to use it for something I'm doing right now because it sounds great but that POP is ruining everything.

As always any help or insight is appreciated. Hope you are all having a great day. Cheers.
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    scook
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:03:22 (permalink)
    From the help file: If you want the sound of the PC2A T‑Type Leveling Amplifier but need more control over the attack and release times, place another compressor in front of the PC2A T‑Type Leveling Amplifier, such as the PC76 U‑Type Channel Compressor, to act on the peaks, then use the PC2A T‑Type Leveling Amplifier for general compression
    #2
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:09:29 (permalink)
    Hey, scook. Is that what that is referring to? It seemed to ring a bell but somewhere buried on this site is a reference to the actual audible POPs. I should probably just dig around to find it again (should have bookmarked but my brain is all over the place right now. I'm a little intimidated by the idea of using two compressors at once on the same channel but I guess if that's what's happening I'd better get over it. Thanks.
    #3
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:13:32 (permalink)
    And it really really does sound great after the POP. It doesn't seem to like living on my individual tracks (distorted instrumental) but as soon as I slap it on the Master bus it's like butter. When I add the N-Type console emu it's even butterier. I know this isn't exactly what these things were designed for but I really don't care because it sounds good to me. ;-)
    #4
    scook
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:16:08 (permalink)
    You are probably thinking of this http://www.cakewalk.com/S...reader.aspx/2007013279
    #5
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:21:12 (permalink)
    That is EXACTLY the page I was referring to. Thank you again, Mr. Scook. I think I pretty much owe you all the beers in the world at this point.

    ;-)
    #6
    scook
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:23:17 (permalink)
    Save a few for your laptop.
    #7
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:24:44 (permalink)
    Bah. It's set to "Fast Reset" already (default). I guess I still gotta find a way to get rid of the POP or use something else. What a shame. It sounds so good. :-(
    #8
    jb101
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:34:09 (permalink)
    I've not used thePC2A on the Master Buss before, so I can't really advise.  On tracks, as another poster mentioned, I would usually put it after the PC76 with a fast-ish attack, which then catches the transients before feeding into the PC2A.
     
    Out of interest, what are your settings on the PC2A?  Is the Clip light turning red? What comes before/after it in the chain?

     Sonar Platinum
    #9
    scook
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:34:19 (permalink)
    A little input gain adjustment around the pop.
    #10
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:45:35 (permalink)
    Been trying the PC4K with fast attack/high threshold and it gets rid of it but it completely squashes the sound. Ugh... I think I'm gonna have to use something else.  Man, I can't seem to find anything to use this thing with. It either does nothing, doesn't sound right or creates these pops. I'm thinking I might see what advice the Bakers have on this one. I thought that photocell setting was designed to avoid this. Ugh... everything's gotta be a pain in the butt, don't it?
    #11
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:48:31 (permalink)
    The pop only happens right at the start of the track. I can't fiddle with that. It's a big open power chord. If there was a way I could somehow trigger the compressor BEFORE that point without any audio I'd be golden. Is there any kind of "look ahead" stuff I could do? I know next to nothing about that kind of thing... just that some effects do it.
    #12
    scook
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 18:53:15 (permalink)
    Automate the PC76 U‑Type Channel Compressor or input gain
    #13
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 19:01:52 (permalink)
    Damn... I haven't really learned how to automate like that yet and was hoping to wait until my next project... not to mention I'm barely grasping the concept of compressors as it is. I think I'd better revisit this thing tomorrow. I got my rhythm tracks EQ'd tonight so I'll just call that a win and start fresh in the morning before I screw something up. Thanks for the input, guys. Any other suggestions are welcome... especially if there are any Bakers lurking. Cheers.
    #14
    scook
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 19:11:01 (permalink)
    Should not be too bad. You probably do not need to do anything fancy. Create an envelop or two add a few nodes to tweak the levels around the problem area(s).
    #15
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 19:19:36 (permalink)
    Problem is I really don't understand that or how exactly to approach it. Like... I can't visualize what that would do or what to tweak and when. It's literally just right when the audio comes in for a split second. The same pop happens when I stop playback. It really seems like they attempted to program this problem out of the effect but apparently not quite enough. Maybe mine's buggy because I really didn't hear much difference between the Classic and the Fast Reset options. Then of course there is the very real likelihood I just don't know what the heck I'm doing. Bah... I'll figure it out tomorrow. I'm too cranky from messing with piles of paperwork today. Cheers.
    #16
    jb101
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 19:41:13 (permalink)
    Serial compression is all about subtle changes on each compressor.
     
    You didn't answer about your settings for the PC2A, clipping or where it fit in the chain.  That may have provided a clue to any pops.
     
    Sleep on it, I'm sure you'll find an answer.

     Sonar Platinum
    #17
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 19:41:36 (permalink)
    Okay... after eating some almonds for sanity's sake I think I've conjured up yet another workaround. Tomorrow I'm gonna try tossing a random clip of noise just before the start of the song and leave a second or two silence. Hopefully the gap will be small enough that the compressor stays awake and then I can cut the extra noise out after my mix down when I master. I really want that opening chord to stay the way it is.
    #18
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 19:45:25 (permalink)
    The comp's not clipping and reduction is set to about 1 o'clock and the makeup Gain to about 10-11 o'clock (sorry... shut down for the night so I can't see the actual numbers). It is set to Compress and I've got the R37 screw thingy set a little above Flat. It sounds great at these settings... except for the pop of course. Cheers.
    #19
    backwoods
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 21:38:40 (permalink)
    One thing you could try is the old reverse/compress/reverse trick

     
    #20
    gswitz
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/04 22:05:54 (permalink)
    Silly idea, but you could copy the starting sound and back it up a half measure to initiate the control then bounce down and trim. Would that help?
    #21
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/05 09:16:39 (permalink)
    @backwoods... Not familiar with that one. Is that the reverse bounce function kind of like you would do to create a reverse reverb effect??

    @gswitz... In the light of a new day I'm think if I do indeed end up using this on the master it's gonna go down something like that. I know this isn't exactly how this thing is supposed to be used but it just sound so good. Cheers.
    #22
    scook
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/05 17:42:17 (permalink)
    Spare time reading about reverse audio compression http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2631845
    #23
    Lynn
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/05 17:56:09 (permalink)
    Beep, I had a couple of thoughts.  Which mode are you in, compressor or limiter?  Is this something that could be cured by adjusting the latency of your  converter?  I've had good luck with the gain set between 40-50 and the pitch reduction between 30-40, and never a pop.  Somewhere in those ranges is the meat of the PC2A.  And, the last thought is gain structure.  Hope it works for you because it sure is sweet.

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    #24
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/05 19:31:00 (permalink)
    Thanks, guys. I just spent the day mixing things getting ready for export sans the PC2A. Gonna try some stuff tomorrow but my test export cropped up a whole new pile of of questions but I'm gonna fiddle with that crap tomorrow. I was thinking I might try it on the exported stereo file instead to see what happens but my first export was WAY different than my mix. Not sure why... but as I said, tomorrow. Brain needs a break. Cheers.
    #25
    Keni
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/05 19:38:46 (permalink)
    As mentioned by others here...

    Simply enable a clip gain envelope (I believe the shortcut is ctl-click-drag in a clip and the gain envelope appears)...

    Then click-drag in the lower portion of the clip going from just before the peak to just after and finally click-drag down in the upper clip area of the marked zone... That will lower the gain of the clip for that portion before it hits the compressor. This will lower the gain of that portion as well as buy a bit of time for the attack to get moving to follow that starting peak...

    Keni


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    #26
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/05 19:47:29 (permalink)
    Hiya, Keni. But that's gonna effect the volume is it not? Like I said it's a big open chord at the very start (kind of like the beginning of Won't Get Fooled... but different). I don't want to lose the punch of the first pick attack. If that trick somehow triggers the compressor before the signal then that would be cool. I'm still thinking I'm gonna have to stick a clip of whatever random noise a second before the start of the tune and cut it out after mixdown. Just wish that Fast Attack toggle thingy worked better. Cheers.
    #27
    scook
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/05 19:53:06 (permalink)
    Not really, you should be able to zoom in and tweak it so that the abrupt change from silence to full on does not blow up the PC2A and still maintain the blast of energy you are looking for.
    #28
    Beepster
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/05 20:06:24 (permalink)
    hmm... It does already have a quick fade in. Isn't that pretty much the same thing or will what you guys are describing do something different. I guess I should describe this a little better. There are two rhythm guitar tracks panned hard right and left. One is the big open power chord and the other is a chunky single note riff (first note low E). There is TH2 (heavily distorted) on the tracks. Both are sent to a single bus where I have applied the LP64 EQ for shaping. As I said there is a quick fade on both (using the regular clip fade tools... not automation). The only other thing that happens is a BFD ride cymbal bell sound tapping away but I'm assuming the guits are the more likely culprit of inducing the POP.

    Anyway... just thought I'd provide a bit more info. I'm not really up to messing around with it tonight because I spent about 4-5 hours mixing so my brain is fried for the day (yeah... I'm a wimp but I start screwing things up after a while). Cheers and thanks for the suggestions.
    #29
    scook
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    Re:PC2A T-Type Leveler: How to stop the annoying POP when it kicks in? 2012/11/05 20:22:53 (permalink)
    Then put a little notch in the gain at the pop or figure out which instrument is the offender (if is it just one) and put a notch in it's volume.
    post edited by scook - 2012/11/06 02:25:48
    #30
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