PCI or USB soundcard?

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coordination
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2010/12/12 06:28:23 (permalink)

PCI or USB soundcard?

Hello,
 
I'm thinking of going back to using a desktop (see my post "Cores vs GHz.")
 
My main reason is to minimise latency when recording the playing of VST's synths, and because my Dell laptop (Vista Home, T8100 Core Duo , 4gig RAM) fan randomly  interrupts performance in various ways, and oh yes, a new one -  my new Novation Remote 25SL Compact  randomly makes Sonar 8.5 play recorded VST's at half speed when I tweak in real time!
 
Anyway,  my question - Will using a PCI slot sound card like a M-Audio 24/96 give lower latency than using my USB Edirol UA-1EX?
 
I guessing it might be a factor, as my old Win XP Pentium PC desktop (with Terratec DMX Fire 24/96 PCI card) can achieve "zero" (imo) latency with max 2 VST's loaded, but can't even open one instance of Dimension Pro.
 
BTW I'm thinking of getting one of these - "Intel i5 Project Music PC"
http://www.inta-audio.com/pc-builder/select_base
 
Thanks in advance.
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11 Replies Related Threads

    RogerS
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2010/12/13 00:35:00 (permalink)
    Yes, as you already guessed, you will achieve lower latencies with PCI versus USB. I still have the 2496 in my old DAW, and it's still a good performer (though it may not sound as nice as some more expensive USB and FW interfaces).

    PE 8.5.3,  Windows 7 Pro 64-bit,  i7 920,  GA-EX58-UD4P,  6gb Corsair DDR3,  2 x Barracuda 500gb,  HIS Radeon GS-4670 Fanless 1gb DDR3, dual 24" monitors,  Axiom 61,  Korg Triton Pro,  Focusrite Saffire Pro 40,  VG-99,  Yamaha MSP5,  Fostex PM0.5       
    #2
    lancekloosner
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2010/12/22 09:55:02 (permalink)
    The sound card is a device for the computer to process audio signals in and out. Typically, a computer expansion card built for this purpose is the mechanism responsible for aids that are available in a variety of audio-visual software, including games, music mixing, video editing and so on.

    #3
    wawelmartin
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2011/01/03 05:53:03 (permalink)
    A sound card is a computer expansion card that input and control of AI and computer programs.The production of audio signals from a computer to facilitate a breakout box is usually sits outside the computer and the cable that is either in a computer PCI card or a USB or FireWire cable is connected.
    #4
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2011/01/03 08:46:27 (permalink)
    Since you already have the USB interface..... get or build the desktop box and load up the software. Then install the USB interface you are using now. See if there is a difference.

    I built a new i5 Intell based machine. I keep it off the net totally. (I connected only to authorize the software) I run NO AV software on it and it's strictly a DAW.

    I connected the same interface I used previously on my Dell laptop. The interface worked fine, the latency is very low, and I can run multiple instances of synths and FX with out so much as a hiccup from the DAW. The old lappy would strain to run half the FX & VST's with CPU numbers in the "drop-out" range. The new i5 with 4g memory runs twice to three times as many live synths and FX at less then 1/3 the CPU numbers.... it's rare to see numbers above 20% unless I'm really forcing it to run a bunch of live stuff. I normally render them to audio and freeze or remove the synths..... which puts my numbers under 10% usually.

    I think the highest number I ever saw on the new DAW was about 36%. I loaded 3 or 4 kontakts, EWQL, and I had Ozone in every track and a few other things like melodyne to suck up CPU's.... just to see if I could make it choke.... it ran smooth as glass. I'm well pleased with it.

    Try your existing interface first... before you buy a PCI card.... you might be pleasantly surprised at what the i5 will do on XP with 4 gig.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/01/03 08:50:32

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    #5
    slartabartfast
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2011/01/03 14:06:40 (permalink)
    My main reason is to minimise latency when recording the playing of VST's synths,


    VST synths are producing the sound/data in the box. The latency you are experiencing is the time it takes to get your midi signal into the box (very very short transmission time and minimal soundcard driver processing) plus the time it takes for your computer to do the porcessing (synths and effects which can be significant) plus buffers. Lookahead buffers especially are built in delays and the only way to eliminate them is not to use plugs that employ them in real time. After those processing delays, there is a very short trip back through the sound card. So the difference between USB and PCI is a couple of orders of magnitude shorter than your processing delays. A faster computer may help, a faster interface bus will not help much if at all.
    #6
    brayanscholar
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2011/01/08 10:09:40 (permalink)
    I have not heard good things about USB sound card to be honest. There have been many rumors and complaints about the cards / USB interfaces and performance lag for real time application.
    As a recording device, they are nice, but I think you'll be pushing water uphill with a fork request for a real-time performance.

    #7
    InstrEd
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2011/01/08 10:59:23 (permalink)
    http://forum.cakewalk.com...;m=2168517&mpage=2

    Post 39 from Jim. He knows his stuff. the Fast Track Ultra for around $300.00 has great round trip latency. You can read the thread has some useful information.

    Instred
    Chicagoland, IL 

    #8
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2011/01/11 11:27:21 (permalink)
    Anyway, my question - Will using a PCI slot sound card like a M-Audio 24/96 give lower latency than using my USB Edirol UA-1EX?

     
    Most PCI audio interfaces deliver low round-trip latency
     
    Only a select few USB audio interfaces deliver low round-trip latency (FastTrack Ultra, FastTrack Ultra 8R,  Fireface UC, and Fireface UFX).
    The above M-Audio and RME units yield ~5.5ms round-trip latency at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k.
    All other USB units yield higher round-trip latency.  Most yield 12-18ms round-trip latency at those same settings.
     
    If you go USB (or Firewire)... and want the lowest possible round-trip latency... your choice is critical.
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #9
    wormser
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2011/01/11 12:34:05 (permalink)
    What's a good reasonably priced upgrade to the Delta 66 PCI card?

    I'm interested in as low a latency as possible and hopefully a PCIe card with good support and stable drivers.

    Don't need ADAT and all that stuff.

    I'm running 64 samples now with about 4.5 msec latency under Windows 7 x64.

    Windows 8 x64
    Intel i7 950 3.06ghz 6 GB DDR3 1333(1066) OCZ memory
    Gigabyte X58A-UD3R v.2.0
    Delta 66.
    Seagate 1.0tb drives x4 OS, Audio, VST, Backup Stuff. 
    Mackie MCU Pro Latest.
    Faderport.
    Sonar X2, PreSonus 2.x, Reaper.
     
    #10
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2011/01/11 13:02:48 (permalink)
    What's a good reasonably priced upgrade to the Delta 66 PCI card? I'm interested in as low a latency as possible and hopefully a PCIe card with good support and stable drivers.

     
    The proven rock-solid PCIe audio interfaces start at ~$900+
    • MOTU 424 PCIe
    • RME PCIe controller card (Multiface-II/Digiface)
     
    Firewire and USB units have taken over much of the $350-$800 range.  All of these units offer low round-trip latency. 
    • Steinberg MR816
    • M-Audio FastTrack Ultra 8R
    • RME Fireface UC/UFX/400/800
     
    Firewire units that have slightly higher (but not high) round-trip latency (along with good fidelity/features), you could also add:
    • M-Audio ProFire 2626
    • MOTU mkIII Firewire units

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #11
    wormser
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    Re:PCI or USB soundcard? 2011/01/11 13:14:16 (permalink)
    Jim Roseberry



    What's a good reasonably priced upgrade to the Delta 66 PCI card? I'm interested in as low a latency as possible and hopefully a PCIe card with good support and stable drivers.

     
    The proven rock-solid PCIe audio interfaces start at ~$900+
    • MOTU 424 PCIe
    • RME PCIe controller card (Multiface-II/Digiface)
     
    Firewire and USB units have taken over much of the $350-$800 range.  All of these units offer low round-trip latency. 
    • Steinberg MR816
    • M-Audio FastTrack Ultra 8R
    • RME Fireface UC/UFX/400/800
     
    Firewire units that have slightly higher (but not high) round-trip latency (along with good fidelity/features), you could also add:
    • M-Audio ProFire 2626
    • MOTU mkIII Firewire units



    Hey Jim!!
    Looks like it's RME or the MOTU or the for me.

    Thanks for the quick reply!


    Windows 8 x64
    Intel i7 950 3.06ghz 6 GB DDR3 1333(1066) OCZ memory
    Gigabyte X58A-UD3R v.2.0
    Delta 66.
    Seagate 1.0tb drives x4 OS, Audio, VST, Backup Stuff. 
    Mackie MCU Pro Latest.
    Faderport.
    Sonar X2, PreSonus 2.x, Reaper.
     
    #12
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