AnsweredPDC issue - operator error?

Author
Post
Essentials Only Full Version
3dmus
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 133
  • Joined: 2007/03/19 05:39:45
  • Status: offline
2013/10/12 10:28:52 (permalink)

PDC issue - operator error?

Hi - I'm working with X3 and am having an issue with PDC. I'm recording a live guitar to go along a multi-out Superior Drummer track. Issue is that the snare has got a VST applied to it (TS-64 Transient Shaper) that seems to add additional latency to the project (making playing the guitar along with it akward). So, my understanding is that in this instance I could enable PDC and that should only affect the live input tracks/tracks with monitoring enabled. Now, the guitar track is the only track that has input monitoring enabled, but as soon as I engage PDC, it throws off the timing of my drum track considerably. 
 
I thought in this instance, I should not have this issue as the PDC would only have been applied to my guitar track? 
 
Related to this, is there any way you can view how much latency (if any) a plugin adds? In Reaper you've got a handy view of all effects and the latency it adds. I was wondering if there's something similar in Sonar X3? 
#1
See best answerList Solutions Only

7 Replies Related Threads
    lfm
    Max Output Level: -53 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2216
    • Joined: 2005/01/24 05:35:33
    • Location: Sweden
    • Status: offline
    Re: PDC issue - operator error? 2013/10/12 10:40:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby 3dmus 2013/10/12 11:32:56
    I had this a long time feature request for Reaper - and was happy to see this in X3.
    I read it as you read it - should only affect live monitoring.
     
    There is one thing I also found that I like - bypass all plugins of this type. Either the shift PDC toolbar button - or rightclick in a bay on audio or midi track - and bypass plugins of this type thingy.
     
    Did you find out more doing something like that?
     
    I will put a monstruous delay as L3 or something on master and try it.
     
    I will check and come back.
    If there is an error it would be swell to get that fixed with X3c already.....
    #2
    3dmus
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 133
    • Joined: 2007/03/19 05:39:45
    • Status: offline
    Re: PDC issue - operator error? 2013/10/12 10:54:52 (permalink)
    Thanks Lfm! The bypass thing works well! B/c I found that simply disabling the plugin didn't remove the latency...which seemed odd to me.
     
    In terms of the issue I described above, I wonder if it would just affect soft synths, or maybe audio tracks too...
    #3
    CoteRotie
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1112
    • Joined: 2006/01/12 01:27:28
    • Location: SF Bay Area
    • Status: offline
    Re: PDC issue - operator error? 2013/10/12 11:30:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby 3dmus 2013/10/12 11:32:27
    3dmus
    I found that simply disabling the plugin didn't remove the latency...which seemed odd to me.




    Disabling the plug doesn't remove the latency so that you can hear the effect of a plug while listening to a track (A/B with/without the plug).  If it removed the latency you would get a stutter in the audio while trying to A/B a plug.
     
    John

    Wait, wait, what key is it in? 

    GA-X58A-UD3 motherboard
    Intel i7 950 CPU w/12 G RAM
    ATI Radeon 4350 graphics
    3 cats 1 crazydog
    Lynx AES16/Aurora 8
    SCA N72 J99 & A12 pres. Adam A7 Monitors
    Win 10  
    SONAR Platinum 64 bit 
    #4
    3dmus
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 133
    • Joined: 2007/03/19 05:39:45
    • Status: offline
    Re: PDC issue - operator error? 2013/10/12 11:32:45 (permalink)
    CoteRotie
    3dmus
    I found that simply disabling the plugin didn't remove the latency...which seemed odd to me.




    Disabling the plug doesn't remove the latency so that you can hear the effect of a plug while listening to a track (A/B with/without the plug).  If it removed the latency you would get a stutter in the audio while trying to A/B a plug.
     
    John




    That's a good point, makes sense, thanks John.
    #5
    lfm
    Max Output Level: -53 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2216
    • Joined: 2005/01/24 05:35:33
    • Location: Sweden
    • Status: offline
    Re: PDC issue - operator error? 2013/10/12 12:01:50 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby 3dmus 2013/10/12 13:44:43
    Yeah, tested and it works fine here.
     
    But though - a big difference if routing through master with L3 - it does not remove all delay - it's still unplayable if live track is routed that way(but I maybe missed some explanation of this).
    L3 is 3000 samples or something and that really is easily noticable.
    But just routing live track direct to analog 1 instead - works fine. So no problem for me.
     
    And putting L3 on snare and SD like you did - ir works fine too.
     
    So routing through master with huge delay still has too much delay, but greatly improved.
    But no problem at all to route direct to soundcard out instead.
     
    I love this feature - really, really good.
    And you just have to remember to remove live input while playing back or that present clip will be affected(and help file explain that well too). I missed that at first.
     
    But I like it better if plugins are disabled, bypassed, that it does not introduce delay. I can stand some crackles and pops enabling bypass. And Waves plugins have really good A/B testing anyway so no need to bypass plugin itself. It reduce the effect of bypassing FX feature - if doing that bypass I would like all latency removed. The basic idea of global FX bypass must be to reduce latency - but it really does not then.
     
    Is it the crowd wanting gapless engine that won that war?
     
    And I got in the habit of doing track templates with a bunch of plugins, where most are bypassed from start and I decide during mixing which one to use. Will affect how I work quite a bit. But not the biggest deal.
     
    But less of a problem now with this PDC removal live. Doing new takes late in the mixing process will be a breeze with this feature.
    #6
    3dmus
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 133
    • Joined: 2007/03/19 05:39:45
    • Status: offline
    Re: PDC issue - operator error? 2013/10/12 13:44:34 (permalink)
    Hey lfm - many thanks for testing this and getting back to me. Weird thing is...the problem now disappeared for me. I re-started Sonar, loaded the project and now the timing issues have disappeared. I suspect this may be one of those very hard to re-produce type bugs and only occurs in very specific circumstances. But, key take away: it works, and great tip about the bypass effects thing....I'll be using that a lot!!
     
     
    #7
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: PDC issue - operator error? 2013/10/12 14:04:54 (permalink)
     
    lfm
    So routing through master with huge delay still has too much delay, but greatly improved.
    But no problem at all to route direct to soundcard out instead.
     

     
    PDC Override for input-monitored tracks can only work if the latency-inducing plug is not on the input-monitored track or on any bus between it and the output. 




    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #8
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1