PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars.

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ChuckC
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2011/10/15 17:23:01 (permalink)

PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars.

   I have been doing a ton of reading up on the endless techniques of all phases of audio engineering.  I have read in a couple of places that one school of thought on recording distorted guitars is to ignore the "record it all and eq later" technique and make some eq cuts to trim the fat you won't use anyway, then compression at the input stage thus having a better level & more saturation of the meat you really want from the source. 
   I am runnng an m audio fastrack pro and don't have much external gear....  is this possible in the box?     if I put an eq & then a compressor in the fx bin as I track the guitar is that the same thing?  ( I don't think so that's why I wanted to ask...)  At this point I am guessing it is time for some outboard toys & some $$ to be spent to achieve this technique.  you tell me?
   I have my yamaha mx16 fx board I use for live sound, rehersal etc....I suppose I could put that in the signal chain before the m audio to do the eq....

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    Cactus Music
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    Re:PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars. 2011/10/15 17:59:55 (permalink)
    You are correct, no point adding plug in type efx as you record as the same thing can easily be done latter, and without destructive results, If you record with eq and then you don't like it once mixing you are hooped. 
    But there is the better idea, especially for guitars, and that is to record a perfectly finished track, but that would take messing with outboard gear until happy. Start with the amps EQ and mike placement. Lots of EQ potential there. 

    Johnny V  
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    #2
    ChuckC
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    Re:PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars. 2011/10/15 18:56:53 (permalink)
    Thanks Cactus Music,
       That's what I figured.  I'd need to buy a fairly expensive outboard channel strip (mic pre, EQ, Comp) to get this done.  I have been experimenting quite a bit with shaping the amps EQ and mic placement to get better sounds at the source, and playing with dual mic's on the cab.  ie... a 57 up close and a large condensor back a bit then blending the together.

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
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    thunderkyss
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    Re:PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars. 2011/10/15 19:49:26 (permalink)
      Recording after eq to me sounds like something they did back in the day. Like you say, with DAWs & unlimited HD space & tracks, there really isn't any need to do so. I like the idea of playing with mic placement, if you're not hearing what you want, move that mic around, then go from there.

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    AT
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    Re:PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars. 2011/10/16 00:32:49 (permalink)
    the idea of pre-eq or pre comp is that you don't have to be so heavy-handed later in eq and comp use.  Of course, that depends on knowing what you don't want in the sound.  A little compression going in helps, well, compress the sound, between the loudest and softest volumes.  That helps later with sitting a guitar (or any other sound) at an average volume when mixing.

    With EQ, I mostly use the hardware going in to take out stuff I don't want.  Unless it is bass or kick (maybe toms) it is easy to slice off some of the bottom rumble and noise going in.  Everything but the exceptions mentioned above don't have much going on down below 80 hz or so.  Just like the low cut switch on a mic, you can get rid of that stuff going in.  For vocals, you can reduce silibence a bit, which makes taming it during mixing easier.  There is lot you can do w/ hardware coming in, the main thing to remember is NOT TOO MUCH.  You can reduce spikes and filter out some problem frequencies - don't try to rid the world of them.  You can do that during mixing, but if you do some of that during recording you (and your comps/eq) don't have to work so hard or drastically.  Of course, the better the hardware, the easier this will be.  It makes no sense to use your live desk's eq or a fifty dollar compressor going in - your software will be better 99% of the time.
     
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    ChuckC
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    Re:PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars. 2011/10/16 08:31:08 (permalink)
    Thanks everyone....    I did another session last night with my other guitarist tracking his guitar for 2 new songs we are working on.  Spent about 25 minutes dialing in his amp tone & mic placement.  smooth sailing after that (at least for me) he still had to nail the performance which he has always semed to get rattled by recording.  Great live but struggles under the pressure a bit!  I don't get it because I love laying down tracks, but eitherway we got em' down.

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
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    Cactus Music
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    Re:PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars. 2011/10/16 12:59:19 (permalink)
    What you do is tell him your not recording the first pass, just getting levels. Hide the red light.

    Johnny V  
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    ChuckC
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    Re:PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars. 2011/10/16 13:58:55 (permalink)
    That might work if:
    A) I had a control room where he couldn't see my monitors &
    B) He didn't have and use Sonar himself

    What I have done though is when he gets a take that sucks less, I tell him that was good & we'll keep it, let's try again a time or two to see what we get.  With a safety net there to fall back on he relaxes a bit & often actually nails it.

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
    http://www.everythingiam.net/
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    bitflipper
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    Re:PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars. 2011/10/16 16:36:03 (permalink)
    The Fast Track Pro features an effect insert loop. Why not pick up an inexpensive EQ to patch in? Or you could get a general-purpose channel strip that might also include other useful features such as compression, distortion (sorry, "character"), higher gain for a ribbon mic, variable input impedance, and a proper VU meter.


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    webbs hill studio
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    Re:PE 8.5.3 How can I eq at input stage? Recording distorted guitars. 2011/10/16 18:02:52 (permalink)
    Cactus Music


    What you do is tell him your not recording the first pass, just getting levels. Hide the red light.

    well said-i often get accomplished vocalists in but as soon as they see the NT1a in front they freeze up a bit-so i tell them it`s only a soundcheck and get some great first takes.
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