Helpful ReplyPRV multiple note drag always "moves by"

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yevster
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2015/06/07 14:32:41 (permalink)

PRV multiple note drag always "moves by"

Am I the only one noticing this? When you have Snap enabled in the "move to" setting, and you select and drag multiple notes, they always seem to move by rather than have the note being dragged snap to gridlines, as was the case with all pre-Platinum sonars.
#1
icontakt
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/08 08:21:41 (permalink)
Are you sure "Snap To" is checked when you right-click on the snap resolution drop-down in the right corner of PRV?

Tak T.
 
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#2
yevster
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/08 10:23:17 (permalink)
Yep. Tripple-checked.
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williamcopper
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/08 15:32:05 (permalink)
Confirm that multiple note selection does NOT snap to your desired setting.   I set snap to whole, and the snap intensity highest, selected a group of notes and found no snap.   As far as I could tell, it doesn't snap "BY" either.    I always use a numeric slide, by bars/beats, not a drag, so never noticed it before
 
And related: in Preferences, under "magnetic test", it appears that the slider does nothing ... it reverts to the same value.     I have all "Landmarks" in that preferences screen unchecked.  
 
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brundlefly
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/08 19:57:57 (permalink)
I cannot reproduce a problem in Everett. Both Snap To and By with groups of notes selected are working as expected in the PRV. Yev, are you also sure you don't have MIDI landmarks enabled?
 
Snap Intensity and Magnetic Test are also working as expected.
post edited by brundlefly - 2015/06/08 20:37:41

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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/08 20:02:02 (permalink)
Edit your posts to confirm you are all on Everett I suggest.

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John
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/08 20:33:49 (permalink)
When I move notes in the PRV I hold shift to keep the notes at there proper place relative to time.

Best
John
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SquireBum
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/08 23:08:56 (permalink)
NO problem here with "Everett".
 
Since no steps were provided to try to reproduce, the following test procedure was created:
 
 
1. Turned off Snap to Grid.
2. Used Smart Tool to draw 6 quarter notes in the PRV at various distances from the grid.
3. Enabled Snap to Grid, "Snap To", and Whole note resolution in the PRV after verifying Global Snap was enabled.
4. Selected all 6 notes.
5. Used Smart Tool to grab the 3rd quarter note and dragged to the right.  All notes moved as a group until the 3rd note approached a measure grid and it snapped to the grid with no problem.  The remaining 5 notes moved the same distance as the 3rd note, but did not "snap".
6. Repeated Step 5 for each of the remaining 5 notes with the same results.
 
This is the expected behavior, since only the note that is grabbed by the mouse in the multiple selection will "snap".
 
Also tried the above steps in Sonar X3 with same results.
 
Were your steps any different than mine?
 
-- Ron

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williamcopper
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/09 05:45:18 (permalink)
Two possibilities for inconsistent reports: I'm on Dorchester, and see the problem.
And I use floated PRV windows.    Some differences have appeared before between floated and docked windows.
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SquireBum
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/09 11:16:53 (permalink)
williamcopper
Two possibilities for inconsistent reports: I'm on Dorchester, and see the problem.
And I use floated PRV windows.    Some differences have appeared before between floated and docked windows.



Rolled back to "Dorchester" and floated the PRV to try and reproduce with the steps used in #8 above and Sonar still produces the same expected results.  Also tried disabling PRV snap and leaving Global Snap enabled and still get the expected results.  Don't have any suggestions at this time.
 
-- Ron

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brundlefly
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/09 11:19:49 (permalink)
I have a backup of the Dorchester executable, and Snap To/By groups of notes works as expected there as well, regardless of the docked/floated state of the PRV.
 
I think we need a recipe that starts with the default Normal template that ships with Platinum, keeping in mind that the PRV-specific snap mode defaults to "By" in the Normal template.
 
 

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williamcopper
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/09 13:29:42 (permalink)
Just to experiment a bit, i docked a PRV window, set snap to at 1/4 in both Track view and in PRV, made sure snap was on.    In fact if I zoomed in, and laboriously brought a note to within 10 ticks of the quarter note grid line, it would snap as expected.    
 
But!! Note Entry: the snap works all too strongly:   I positioned the cursor at 479 ticks away from the quarter, and the damn thing snaps all the way back to the quarter grid line. 
 
And to clarify, the same thing happens with one note selected as with multiple notes selected.
 
Then I changed the snap setting to 1/16 (240 ticks) ... now I'd expect snap to happen if I drag a note to with 1/64th (60 ticks) ... but the same thing: the note had to be laboriously brought to within 10 ticks of the 1/16 grid line.     And the note entry snap happened at one tick away from mid-point!  (239 ticks)
 
But I work on a 10 minute, 100 bar, 400 quarters, 384000 tick, basis -- could this be the difference?   For me, "near" the note, if I want a snap at such a big resolution as 1/4, the snap should happen if I'm within 1/8 or so (240 ticks) of the grid line.    I usually use "snap", if at all, at 1/64 or 1/128, in order to avoid getting too many controllers with a controller draw.   
 
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brundlefly
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/09 15:04:41 (permalink)
It sounds like you have your snap intensity set quite low. But I think it's working as intended that note entry snaps to the grid regardless of snap intensity. Only moving notes honors snap intensity. This allows you to work quickly when entering new notes without having to aim too carefully. If you want freedom when entering notes, just disable snap.

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SquireBum
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/09 17:18:05 (permalink)
williamcopper
Just to experiment a bit, i docked a PRV window, set snap to at 1/4 in both Track view and in PRV, made sure snap was on.    In fact if I zoomed in, and laboriously brought a note to within 10 ticks of the quarter note grid line, it would snap as expected.    
 
But!! Note Entry: the snap works all too strongly:   I positioned the cursor at 479 ticks away from the quarter, and the damn thing snaps all the way back to the quarter grid line. 
 
And to clarify, the same thing happens with one note selected as with multiple notes selected.
 
Then I changed the snap setting to 1/16 (240 ticks) ... now I'd expect snap to happen if I drag a note to with 1/64th (60 ticks) ... but the same thing: the note had to be laboriously brought to within 10 ticks of the 1/16 grid line.     And the note entry snap happened at one tick away from mid-point!  (239 ticks)
 

 
Snap in Sonar activates based on the distance from the grid in display pixels not ticks.  Tested this by using different zoom levels and screen captured the activation point.  An image processing program indicates that the distance is approximately 12 pixels on my system regardless of the zoom level.
 
The use of pixels for snap strength is common.  For example, another DAW I use has options to set the grid with note values and set the snap strength in pixels (not ticks).
 
The bottom line is the more the track is zoomed in the closer the note has to be to the grid in ticks.
 
-- Ron
 
[Edit]  The measurement of 12 pixels was made in the PRV only.  Track view distance was not confirmed.  [/End of edit]
[Edit2]  The Snap intensity in preferences was set to one mark below "Extreme" and the grid was set to quarter notes.  [/End of Edit2]
 
post edited by SquireBum - 2015/06/09 17:50:10

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yevster
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/14 00:41:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby williamcopper 2015/06/14 21:24:43
This has nothing to do with pixels. Here's a capture. The whole time I'm moving the mouse evenly first to the left, then once it snaps, evenly to the right, never stopping until the notes themselves stop moving.
 
In the Control bar, Snap is set to "To" with a note value of 1/8 and marks disabled.
 

edit: Reproduced in Everett.
post edited by yevster - 2015/06/14 00:47:44
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icontakt
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/14 00:59:32 (permalink)
yevster
In the Control bar, Snap is set to "To" with a note value of 1/8 and marks disabled.

 
The snap setting in the Control Bar doesn't need to be set to "To."
As I said in my last post, it's the option in the PRV that decides the behavior.
 


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Anderton
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/14 01:00:20 (permalink)
Unfortunately the video isn't smooth so I can't tell where it's snapping and where it's just pausing. It appears that the start times of the individual notes are inconsistent; if so, that could be an issue. If you select multiple notes, SONAR might not know which note is the one that's meant to be the "master" snap.

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yevster
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/14 01:04:16 (permalink)
Icontakt nailed it. So the PRV now has its own "to" vs. "by" setting. I got confused by the fact that the Control bar Snap toggle does enable/disable the PRV snap toggle. I will resist the instinct to blame the software design when I get confused. 
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icontakt
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/14 01:08:39 (permalink)
I agree it's confusing. The To and By should be visible without having to right-click on the drop-down. 

Tak T.
 
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brundlefly
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/14 01:38:02 (permalink)
yevster
Icontakt nailed it. So the PRV now has its own "to" vs. "by" setting.



See post #11: "the PRV-specific snap mode defaults to "By" in the Normal template."
 
More proof that a picture's worth a 1000 words. 
 
Glad you got it figured in any case.
 
Incidentally, I did report to the Bakers when PRV To/By was first introduced that having it hidden and defaulting to By was going to cause a lot of confusion. 
post edited by brundlefly - 2015/06/14 01:45:34

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williamcopper
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/14 21:21:38 (permalink)
Hm.    Some developer would do well to examine all the variants:  as it is now, it is pretty lame. 
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brundlefly
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Re: PRV multiple note drag always "moves by" 2015/06/14 22:52:49 (permalink)
williamcopper
Hm.    Some developer would do well to examine all the variants:  as it is now, it is pretty lame. 



Dare I ask what this means? Variants meaning the way other DAWs handle snap?
 

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