Pan laws

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That's a great chart Mike. Remember to thank Altima_Boy_2000 from me if you see him;)

And thank you for hosting and posting it

I used to be obsessed by Pan laws a few years ago, both in DAWs, digital and analogue consoles. But as soon as I stopped caring and started using my ears things started to sound good in stead.

But one of these charts can really come in handy when you find yourself in a position where you have to look into it

I found Mike's chart very informative especially after Sonar version 8.5.2 when the expected behaviour started to match the chart.

It would matter more if you were collaborating on a project where you were aiming for different laws inherent on the target equipment.

A really good way to get in a mess would be to change to pan laws mid-project.

In practice I've never had cause to stray from Sonar's factory default (0dB centre, sin/cos taper, constant power) but the feature is there and working as it should (8.5.2 on) if required.

I though it was Sonar 4 or 5. I could be wrong. it was years ago when we had that bug.


EDIT: Yup I was right.. just did a search. It was Sonar 4 and 5.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=616116&high=pan+laws+bug

Good Ol Ron Kuper days.

I miss the "gapless audio" debate. Good times ;)

hmm I also kind of miss the original synth rack. Not much screen re estate.

Hi mike,

Ya it would be a good idea when the audio engine is "tweaked" in some form per version.

-3 dbs RMS center is often considered "Standard" because it is the way analog mixers were designed.

Some people feel (myself included) that SONAR's default of 0-center can cause a buildup of sound at the center of the sound stage that can make mixes sound a bit cluttered and lose some of the stereo effect if not careful.

But regardless of what you use, the really important thing is too DONT SWITCH in a certain project.
For example, you may notice if you have a project at 0-center and switch it to -3 taper, the volume will drop and perhaps your solo instruments will drop into the background.

You then must either stay on the 0-center , or re-mix your pans and levels for that project.

As stated above, I grew up on big mixers and analog tape so my ears are used to the standard -3 db RMS .

Also you will see guys like Craig Anderton recommend this also ..

See link below ..

http://www.musiciansfrien...document?doc_id=102097

As long as the taper is consistent and there is enough headroom to avoid clipping, it should not matter whether it's 0 dB center with +3 on the sides, of -3 dB center with 0 on the sides.  There is a 3 dB relative difference either way (unless you are able to have "per-track" panning laws like some other apps).  Some pan-law debates can get bit silly and there's more "feel" than fact.

Am wondering how it would affect collaborations between others-
importing a track or stem that used a different pan law.

I assume you'd want it be same type as the project, right?

From my perspective, I don't see how pan laws can make any difference whatsoever unless you are:

1. Moving files between hosts with different pan laws.
2. Automating panning.

If the pan position is fixed, you should be able to generate identical results using any other pan law by setting the track's pan and level slightly differently.

Of course, some may find it easier (more natural) to adjust things using one pan law than another.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but doing so anyway:

I haven't tried the Channel Tools plug-in yet. I hope that fits into this discussion. I believe this plug can widen a mix, or it can decrease the width of a stereo track and then pan it in a specific place in the stereo field. How would Panning Laws effect the use of this tool? Would the default method increase the risk of clipping?

SSL consoles have a -4.5 dB pan law.

I know that this is a late response to this thread but I have been having a HUGE problem in getting the center stage CLEARER... no matter what I did, there was just too much going on in the center of the mix and it made the mixes sound a bit messy.

I read about these panning laws and really didn't pay too much attention.  Well, I finally studied this effect a bit and VIOLA, sure enough, changed the pan law from default to the -3db RMS one (or something like that) and instant clarity in the mix... panned instruments sat where they belonged so much better.  It was the sound I have been after for such a long time. I wrote my results off to a limitation of a DAW and just accepted it for way too long.

Thank you ALL for helping me understand the panning laws and how to set them in SONAR.  Most of my mixing experiences prior to the DAW world was with analog desks that just sounded clearer to me (but now I know why).

Hee Hah

Jim

All I know is that before Cakewalk had pan laws in place Nuendo sounded 20 to 40% better. :)





(a long old story some will get)