SeveredVesper
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Panning problems
I use a VST amp simulator effect (AcmeBarGig Shred 2.0) for my guitar. For my solo (as in guitar solo) track, i wanted it panned 30% Left and right, but to do that i have to put each an individual effect on the left track and the right track. Is there a way i could do what i wish to do more efficiently. I can't use sends, because even if i send both the left and right track to one bus with the effect, it would just come out as where the bus is panned, not how the tracks are.
post edited by SeveredVesper - 2010/05/19 15:23:35
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/19 15:31:15
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Once or twice...I don't know...maybe three times I have copied my track, and panned the two tracks opposite. I have MC so I don't use sends. I simple pan them and send them to a guitar buss. The tracks retain their panning. The result is a slightly fatter wider sound.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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SeveredVesper
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/19 15:34:28
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MC? What is MC guitarhacker? Thanks for the quick response! On sonar the bus doesn't translate to what the tracks are panned to, instead it translates into where the bus is panned to. Am i missing something?
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Psalmist35
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/19 15:56:28
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I could be wrong, but I think MC is Music Creator. Maybe Herb will chime in.
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Tap
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/19 16:02:58
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MC is short for Music Creator ... Cakewalk product Based on Sonar.
Since you use VST amp Simulator effect, does that create a stereo output?
I've done this a couple of times... I'll take my guitar track and clone it. That way I can start with the same effects settings. I then pan one 30% L and the other 30% R and record a second guitar track and usually add harmonies. The combination gives a nice stereo effect.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/19 16:04:24
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Your right! MC is music creator
i wanted it panned 30% Left and right, but to do that i have to put each an individual effect on the left track and the right track
You need a stereo imager, like the channel tools to do this. The pan in sonar is a slider. you can slide it left and right, but you cannot control individual sides of each stereo channel. so insert the channel tools that comes with sonar producer 8 or purchase one that can do what you want. Piece, Cj
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/19 20:35:25
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yeah MC is Music Creator. when I pan a track that is routed through a buss the panning stays intact.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/20 03:14:17
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SeveredVesper
I use a VST amp simulator effect (AcmeBarGig Shred 2.0) for my guitar. For my solo (as in guitar solo) track, i wanted it panned 30% Left and right, but to do that i have to put each an individual effect on the left track and the right track. Is it an identical signal (copied) you're panning or have you played the solo twice? Isn't it so that if you pan an equal % to left and right, you actually hear it in center, like mono? Just as if you hard pan an identical signal. In that case it also sounds and behaves like mono in the bus. There needs to be a difference between the signals for the stereo effect to be heard, nudge the other a little or something.
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SeveredVesper
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/20 04:14:16
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Yes, an identical track. Correct, i could just clone the tracks and pan on to the left and the other to the right, but i was wondering if there was a more efficients and less CPU intensive way to do it, like what guitarhacker does just by sending it to a single bus. Is music creator ran within sonar? Or is it whole different DAW program?
Hey CJ, I am using Sonar 7 and i don't think i have this channel tools. Which are a few good products to buy for this purpose? I have no idea on stereo imagers.
Thanks for your help guys!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/20 04:34:39
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Try the Sonnitus "Phase" plug. (Or is it Cakewalk?)
It doesn't have the full functionality that Channel Tools does, but it might get you going in the right direction.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/20 07:55:11
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Music Creator is a DAW... it's considered a "beginner's" Daw since it doesn't have all the bells and whistles that Sonar has.
You could just put a stereo widener plug on the single track. However, cloning a track in the audio realm does not pose much of a load for Cake. Plugging the single track would likely be a heavier load than cloning a track.
What I suggest...if you have not already done so, is start experimenting with the various suggestions to see what they sound like, if you like them , and if they get the results you are looking for.
In the end, that's really how you will learn.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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SeveredVesper
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/20 08:07:44
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Yeah, i think that's how i'll go. Thanks for your advice everyone! Cheers!
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bitflipper
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/20 10:47:11
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I can't use sends, because even if i send both the left and right track to one bus with the effect, it would just come out as where the bus is panned, not how the tracks are. Most amp sims are mono effects, so are best used as track inserts rather than on busses. If you want that wide guitar effect, you'll need to use two instances of the amp sim, one for each track. That's actually better for width anyway, since common practice is to have different settings for left and right. If you were doing it for "real", with physical amplifiers and microphones, you'd likely use different tone settings, different microphone placement or even a different guitar and amplifier for each track. After all, if both sides sound exactly the same you don't have stereo anyway, it's mono.
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SeveredVesper
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/20 11:03:03
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bitflipper
I can't use sends, because even if i send both the left and right track to one bus with the effect, it would just come out as where the bus is panned, not how the tracks are.
Most amp sims are mono effects, so are best used as track inserts rather than on busses. If you want that wide guitar effect, you'll need to use two instances of the amp sim, one for each track.
That's actually better for width anyway, since common practice is to have different settings for left and right.
If you were doing it for "real", with physical amplifiers and microphones, you'd likely use different tone settings, different microphone placement or even a different guitar and amplifier for each track. After all, if both sides sound exactly the same you don't have stereo anyway, it's mono.
Hey Dave! I have two guitars of different tones hard panned left and right respectively. But if i would make clone a track and put if 30/30 panned for example, it would just be the same as if i just panned a single track dead center? Wow. I thought that 30/30 was different from 50/50 and again from 100/100, but all in all it's just the same as having it dead center (when speaking of identical tracks though)? But if the tracks weren't identical tones, would 100/100 and 50/50 make a difference (As for the rhythm parts)?
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bitflipper
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/20 13:46:20
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Oo! Same track duplicated and panned apart is the same as mono or both panned down the middle regardless of %. They have to be different in order to hear a stereophonic effect. 100% left and right is the most widely-used pan for rock rhythm guitar.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/20 15:58:50
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Yep. That's exactly what I already tried to point out about the duplicated tracks. That's why I wondered a little why everybody was talking about wideners and such. Sounded unnecessary and complicated to me.
In the OP the question was only about the guitar solo, though.
Bounce the track to audio, duplicate, pan left and right and nudge the other one some milliseconds forward (watch out for comb filtering).
Or send those to a bus for further enhancement.
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SeveredVesper
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/20 16:45:10
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@Kalle
Biggest apologies! I wasn't able to read your post properly. I really apologize for that.
Will "Bounce the track to audio, duplicate, pan left and right and nudge the other one some milliseconds forward" sound better rather than just a single center panned track?
Anyway it's sound yummy, i'll try that! Thanks Kalle! (Do you dig Finnish death metal by any chance?)
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/21 03:59:29
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"Better" is subjective.
It will definitely sound a lot wider and fuller.
Not only do you have the freedom to nudge one of the tracks in time, play around with nudging the pitch a few cents higher or lower.
Try both - see if you like it!
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Panning problems
2010/05/25 10:38:03
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SeveredVesper
@Kalle
Biggest apologies! I wasn't able to read your post properly. I really apologize for that.
Will "Bounce the track to audio, duplicate, pan left and right and nudge the other one some milliseconds forward" sound better rather than just a single center panned track?
Anyway it's sound yummy, i'll try that! Thanks Kalle! (Do you dig Finnish death metal by any chance?)
No apologies needed! I did not make my point very clear, I must admit, now that I re-read my post. We have a metal band of some sort under every tree and on every island (and we have lots of trees and islands) in Finland, and I'm glad to say very many of them are actually very good what comes to playing skills. It's not the music for an old/ex hippie, but it's great that the guys do a good job, even though they can't make a living with their music.
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