Panning questions, guitars, solo's?

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barry12349
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2011/04/19 11:53:58 (permalink)

Panning questions, guitars, solo's?

Good morning everybody,
 
I understand my questions may open up a plethra of long answers. I will try and keep it simple.
 
1. When panning after all my tracking is done, I have 2 guitars playing the same strumming pattern. Do I pan one to 40% R and the other to 40% L? Or do I completly go 100% R and 100% L?
 
2. Also if I am ripping a awesome guitar solo does it go 100% R or L? or does this go 40%-50%
 
From when I started in this forum I was told to picture a live band and how they are all positioned, but even after several successful songs. I am still wondering what most poeple are doing. I assume there is a conventional way to approach this???
 
 
3. Also when using a compressor and EQ in a final mix ( MC4), do I add it to only the final mix or use subs (one for guitar and one for Vox)? and then also use it for the final mix. I play more of a poppy distortion sound.
 
Any help would be awesome!!!
Barry

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    Beagle
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    Re:Panning questions, guitars, solo's? 2011/04/19 12:21:11 (permalink)
    1) - which sounds better?  I personally would probably go with 100/100 but it would also depend on what else I have in the project.  if I only have the 1 guitar and a bass and drums then I probably would go with something closer to 40/40 or 50/50 instead to help fill up the sound space.  but if I've got keys and organ and strings, etc filling up the stereo space then I'd probably keep them wide.

    2) is this a stereo or a mono guitar solo?  if stereo then panning won't help you any.  channel tools will help (sonar) but for a mono guitar solo it should be C.  if you double track it you can pan it like above, tho.  depends on the mix - if you need to fill space then fill space, but the overall sound should be equal in both speakers for a solo at the very least.

    I still use the "live band soundstage" approach for a lot of panning.  but I also make sure I've got a good stereo field with sound filling the spaces.  sometimes I'll do something nutty too, but it depends on the song.  if you listen to a lot of the older "records" like Beatles you'll hear where some times they panned things really oddly - like all drums on the left and bass all the way on the right.

    3) that completely depends.  I tend to use a compressor on the bass track, on all vocal tracks and on the overall drum bus, then on the master bus I'll usually not use a compressor but I will use a limiter.

    sometimes I'll also use parallel compression (actually I use that a lot) for just about anything.  it really depends on if the instrument NEEDS compression or not.  don't use it if you don't need it, but on the other hand, compression is probably the most use FX in my mixes.

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    Robomusic
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    Re:Panning questions, guitars, solo's? 2011/04/19 12:22:02 (permalink)
    Barry to be truthful there is no one way to do this. You need to learn to trust your ears to get the sound you like.

    As far as panning a pair of strummed guitar tracks to me that would depend on just how alike they are. If they are separately recorded , and not cloned i would worry that the timing would be not the same and would begin to over fill the sound scape, although that might sound great in some situations. I might compress one and reverb the other. Or not. The lead solo might be panned to the left or right, it might be then automated to move accross the "stage" with a pannining envelope to mimic a guitarist walking around. Or not!

    On my final mix i place an multiband EQ on the master buss, followed by a master limiter. I place a reverb and a compressor on separate stereo aux busses. i add sends to the tracks i want to efect by those and dial to taste. I use compression sparingly and only a little bit here and there. The master limiter will keep the summed mix from clipping, but i make sure that each track is clean first.
    post edited by Robomusic - 2011/04/19 12:24:10

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    barry12349
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    Re:Panning questions, guitars, solo's? 2011/04/19 13:12:19 (permalink)
    Beags,
     
    Wow, that give me alot to think about. I understand "filling in" the mix a little better now.
    I was using quite a few guitar tracks, as long as I am giving them their own space (40%, 50%, 80%, 100%) it shouldn't be cluttered?
     
    I was putting the Guitar solo at 100% left, and 2 guitars w/ distortion strummed at 40% L and R. Obviously bass, drums, lead vox at C. But know I see completly what you are saying.
     
    Thanks for your help always appreciated! As for now I only have MC4, using no other software.
     
    Barry :)

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    barry12349
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    Re:Panning questions, guitars, solo's? 2011/04/19 13:19:28 (permalink)
    Awesome ideas. Can't wait to get home from work to check out these ideas. Even if it doesnt suit my mix, I will learn! Thanks for taking the time.
     
    Barry

    "Sometimes your the bat, and sometimes your the ball"
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    barry12349
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    Re:Panning questions, guitars, solo's? 2011/04/19 13:36:24 (permalink)
    Thanks Robo, that above was for you!

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    Beagle
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    Re:Panning questions, guitars, solo's? 2011/04/19 13:49:18 (permalink)
    barry12349


    Beags,
     
    Wow, that give me alot to think about. I understand "filling in" the mix a little better now.
    I was using quite a few guitar tracks, as long as I am giving them their own space (40%, 50%, 80%, 100%) it shouldn't be cluttered?
     
    I was putting the Guitar solo at 100% left, and 2 guitars w/ distortion strummed at 40% L and R. Obviously bass, drums, lead vox at C. But know I see completly what you are saying.
     
    Thanks for your help always appreciated! As for now I only have MC4, using no other software.
     
    Barry :)

    the mix can certainly get cluttered easily when you start adding a bunch of stuff in all of the "holes" in the soundspace, but it also has to do with the base frequencies of the instrument and the harmonics they create.  for example if you put guitar playing the same thing at 30/30 and at 40/40 and at 50/50 and 60/60 - even if you process them differently (like verb on one set, compression on another, delay and EQ on another, etc...it will get muddy very quickly because they're all in the same area of the frequency domain.
     
    however if you have guitars playing the same thing at 40/40 and add strings at 30L and fingerpicked acoustic at 40R and banjo at 60L then you'll fill up the soundspace and with careful EQing and compression you'll have a full well rounded mix.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Panning questions, guitars, solo's? 2011/04/19 19:25:06 (permalink)
    OK... I'm gonna tell you what I do.

    3. I get the sound I want going in. generally there are no compressors on the guitar in the box. Perhaps some reverb in a GUITAR BUSS.   I will send all my guitars to one guitar buss to place some verb on them all. I usually do this when I have multiple guitars in the mix.

    1&2. I have generally only used a mono guitar signal...one guitar and it's panned about 30% either way with something else on the other side to balance it.  However....

    I like to use twin guitars in solo mode alot. when I do, I generally pan them about 50 to 70 % opposite, never 100% . Set the levels about the same and pan them opposite. You want enough bleed into the opposite weaker channel to keep from the stark reality of 100% panning.

    Something new I have just started playing with. Doubling the guitar track. take a nicely played guitar... playing chords or lead.... doesn't matter and clone the track. Now in the new track, highlight it and right click it. In the box select CLIP PROPERTIES. In the new box that opens you will see the starting time of the track is set to 1:01:000 you simply need to change that to 1:01.040  or some other very small time difference. That will move the new track BACK in the time line 40 "clicks". Pan them about 80% opposite of each other and click SAVE and then play them. You should not have phasing issues and you should hear a fatter sounding guitar with a hint of stereo imaging now.

    To hear this technique on the guitar and the sax.... Listen to this  use headphones for the best experience.

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    Robomusic
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    Re:Panning questions, guitars, solo's? 2011/04/20 11:14:24 (permalink)
    Awesome thread. Great stuff guys.

    One other thing to do is to listen carefully to the mix, listen for it to start sounding muddy. Then apply Eq to the mix maybe on a couple tracks that have similar Frequencies. Use the EQs to roll of or lessen the frequencies that are too much. A spectrum analyzer can help here. Sometims guitar, vocals, keyboards, and many other instruments "live" in the same sonic band. Carving out that area can help them stop stepping all over each other.

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    Robomusic
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    Re:Panning questions, guitars, solo's? 2011/04/20 11:18:52 (permalink)
    Here is a great resource of reading and knowledge. They also have practice tracks to learn on.  http://www.cambridge-mt.com/ms-intro.htm

    I'd Seize the day but i can't quite reach it!

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