Polly13
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Panning reverb?
I've heard reference to panning reverb, but I don't know how to do it using Cakewalk. I'm using Sonar 8 Producer Edition. Any help would be appreciated :)
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bitflipper
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/29 18:57:13
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What did you hear about reverb panning? Are we talking about how reverb distributes reflections across the panorama, how reverb preserves or does not preserve pan position of stereo and/or mono inputs, whether or not a reverb sums left and right before generating reflections, or using panning as a special effect or widening technique? In lieu of clarification, I'll take a blind shot at the question...assume that the output of a reverb plugin is probably stereophonic, in which case "panning" has no meaning. But depending on how you want to manipulate the stereo image, inserting Channel Tools after the reverb would be the usual starting point. That will allow you to either narrow the reverb tail's image, or use M/S mode to widen the reverb by boosting the sides.
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/30 12:15:19
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Its simple, you can use the the reverb pan settings, if it has it, the sends left and/or right settings, the bus pan settings and your track pan settings and automation.Use what ever you can use. CJ
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Sacalait
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/30 14:44:02
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another way I've done it is create two aux sends and insert two disparate reverb plugins. On the track you want to effect- create two sends- one for each reverb. Pan the output of each hard right and left. It works best when the settings are 'similar' like a Breverb Hall and a Lexicon Hall.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/30 14:52:25
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Another option (and I sometimes do this) is to let a reverb create a stereo output but use Channel Tools on the output of the reverb. Narrow the stereo image right down and then place the reverb at say 2 O'Clock and the mono source signal at say 10 O Clock. That can be very effective sometimes. You don't always have to have the reverb outputs in full stereo right across the stereo pan field either. ie actually position the reverb in the stereo field. In a complex dense mix that will stand out more than the usual stereo return concept.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Polly13
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/30 14:58:49
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Thanks for the responses, guys. In answer to bitflipper's question about what I heard.... I read here and there about it, without really knowing what it meant. I've since heard an effect on recordings which I assume the term refers to. An example of the effect is one I heard recently, where a vocal was panned straight down the middle and it had reverb added, but the reverberations just went off to one side, rather than all around.
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sharke
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/30 18:42:30
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Don't forget you can make a reverb mono as well. In fact that's often exactly what you want, especially if a stereo reverb is taking up too much space. I will sometimes pan an instrument to one side and pan its mono reverb to the other.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/30 19:02:27
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sharke you actually should read some previous posts. I have covered that concept already. Then you can save yourself some time repeating what has already been said.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Polly13
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/31 10:53:58
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sharke Don't forget you can make a reverb mono as well. In fact that's often exactly what you want, especially if a stereo reverb is taking up too much space. I will sometimes pan an instrument to one side and pan its mono reverb to the other.
Yes, that's exactly what I want to do. I was just struggling with the means of achieving it!
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Polly13
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/31 10:57:42
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Jeff Evans Another option (and I sometimes do this) is to let a reverb create a stereo output but use Channel Tools on the output of the reverb. Narrow the stereo image right down and then place the reverb at say 2 O'Clock and the mono source signal at say 10 O Clock. That can be very effective sometimes. You don't always have to have the reverb outputs in full stereo right across the stereo pan field either. ie actually position the reverb in the stereo field. In a complex dense mix that will stand out more than the usual stereo return concept.
I don't even know where to start here, Jeff. What is Channel Tools?
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scook
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/31 11:53:05
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Channel Tools is a VST plug-in bundled with SONAR. Pretty sure it was part of SONAR 8 Producer.
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bitflipper
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/31 11:56:59
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The concept of panning, in the conventional sense, has no real meaning when it comes to reverb. A reverb plugin emulates a natural acoustical phenomenon: audio bouncing off walls. In an acoustical setting, that means delayed versions of the sound arrive at your ear from many directions, including the opposite side from where the original sound emanated. To simulate this with artificial reverb, the processor applies random panning to each faked "reflection". You can usually control how much of this effect is applied, via the reverb's "width" setting. Panning is therefore an intrinsic function of the reverb unit or plugin. You can mess with it after the fact, but you're really just defeating part of the overall effect. There are legitimate reasons for doing so, but not many. For example, if your reverb plugin lacks a Width adjustment you might want to narrow or widen the reverb tail using M/S processing (that's where Channel Tools comes in). I sometimes use an autopanner or chorus on reverb as a special effect. I've also used a pair of mono reverbs, hard-panned, again for special effect. But for the most part, reverb usually works best when you just let it do its own thing with the panorama.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/31 16:20:57
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bitflipper But for the most part, reverb usually works best when you just let it do its own thing with the panorama.
You are limiting yourself in a way thinking like that. There are no rules. Yes most of the time returning reverbs in stereo is good and works for sure. eg important parts eg vocals etc.. But as I said I have had a situation where making a return mono and panning it one side with the source on the other actually worked better and that part became clearer/louder as a result. Then I was able to turn both the part and its reverb down a little. Maximum illusion, minimum voltage. If something like that works for you then do it, simple as that. It is a bit like panning 3 stereo synths to the same L-R panorama. Sometimes that does not work so well either and you can get a better result by using something like Channel Tools, narrowing the stereo outputs down a little and placing them across the spectrum. eg L-C, 10 O'clock-2 O'clock and C-R Nothing to stop you doing the same approach with reverbs either. Any decent reverb will mono down very nicely.
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sharke
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/31 16:31:30
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Jeff Evans sharke you actually should read some previous posts. I have covered that concept already. Then you can save yourself some time repeating what has already been said.
Ooo the snark! To be fair though, you talked about narrowing a stereo reverb image, not making it mono.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Panning reverb?
2014/12/31 16:43:10
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You probably don't read manuals either LOL!  Narrow it down enough and you get mono in the end. For many years all I could afford was that Yamaha R1000 which is a total mono reverb. (note Bit, the very first Yamaha reverb ever was totally mono so your stereo panorama theory does not hold up there) And yet it actually sounds very good. I used to find ways to make it wider by doing the delay thing on one side and using stereo imaging eg an old Roland Stereo Flanger (SPF325) which had a rather nice Chorus in it and also Dimension D. I became quite expert at using a totally mono reverb.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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soens
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Re: Panning reverb?
2015/01/01 07:09:20
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Even if you're saying the same thing as another poster but in a different way, one might be easier for someone like me to understand while the other post might just confuse me more than I already am. There's room for everyone.
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Anderton
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Re: Panning reverb?
2015/01/01 15:02:43
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soens Even if you're saying the same thing as another poster but in a different way, one might be easier for someone like me to understand while the other post might just confuse me more than I already am.
If this wasn't true, then the phrase "in other words..." would never have been invented The funniest example was in a thread where three people answered at almost the same time and said almost the same thing. Talk about consensus!
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Anderton
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Re: Panning reverb?
2015/01/01 15:04:34
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Your potentially interesting but more or less useless reverb factoid for today is that there are very few stereo reverbs. Most sum the inputs, then generate stereo reverb from that.
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konradh
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Re: Panning reverb?
2015/01/01 15:11:02
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While it makes sense to search the forum in many cases, it is often not practical for someone to read through years of posts to see if there is an answer buried somewhere. And when someone provides an answer in a new post—even if it's been offered before—a new group of people sees it and benefits. And now, I will lecture on my views of geopolitical economics.
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