Helpful ReplyParallel Compression on the Whole Mix (except drums) – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique

Author
TheMaartian
Max Output Level: -52.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2256
  • Joined: 2015/05/21 18:30:52
  • Location: Flagstaff, AZ
  • Status: offline
2017/08/30 15:22:12 (permalink)

Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix (except drums) – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique

Really interesting in-the-box technique based on Andrew Scheps original use of the extra master buss (rear buss) on his desk.
 

post edited by TheMaartian - 2017/09/14 14:16:04

Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 64-bit Tascam US-16x08
SONAR Platinum Melodyne 4 Studio Rhyme Genie 9 Gig Performer 1
Nektar Panorama P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro
NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2 Toontrack SD3, EZK
#1
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9167
  • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
  • Location: SL, UT
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/08/30 15:38:35 (permalink)
you know,
if you mix correctly,
why would you ever need parallel on the WHOLE MIX?
 
that means, you missed something while you were tracking.
 
there are certain sub busses that to me, makes perfect sense for parallel compression,
like the drum bus.

"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
https://soundcloud.com/bats-brew
--
Sonar 6 PE>Win XP>RME Babyface Pro>Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GH>GeForce 8400>2GB DDR2 SDRAM
 
#2
msorrels
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 796
  • Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/08/30 16:07:51 (permalink)
The effect can be very useful at blending the tracks together and is different from parallel compressing single tracks.  Putting a send on every single non-drum track is kind of insane and prone to errors though.  It would be better to route every track(or group of tracks) down to a number of intermediate buses(say one for drums, one for everything else) and then have a single send from the everything else bus to a parallel compression bus.  This way when you add a track as long as you route it to the right drum/non-drum bus it will be included in the parallel rear bus.

-Matt
 
#3
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9167
  • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
  • Location: SL, UT
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/08/30 16:45:44 (permalink)
exactly matt..
 
you can clownphuck the sh!t out of your tracks putting something like parallel compression on AFTER the fact,
that's something you have to do from the get go.
 

"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
https://soundcloud.com/bats-brew
--
Sonar 6 PE>Win XP>RME Babyface Pro>Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GH>GeForce 8400>2GB DDR2 SDRAM
 
#4
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9167
  • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
  • Location: SL, UT
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/08/31 15:57:35 (permalink)
OK, STILL CHEWING ON THIS...
 
i've been using parallel compression for years,
but typically i use it to boost the drums in terms of 'excitement', and occasionally i'll add it to certain sub busses to bring them up , such as acoustic guitars, or lead vox...
 
but now i dawned on me, watching this video for the 4th time, that using this technique, this idea of 'auto-mixing' a sub that is heavily compressing everything (but drums) and mixing it back in,
is taking ALL of the dynamics of the song away.
 
in otherwords, 
whenever there would be some 'breathing room' in the mix when loud things back off, gets brought right back up using this technique.
 
it's like the opposite of what i'm trying to learn to do right now.
 

"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
https://soundcloud.com/bats-brew
--
Sonar 6 PE>Win XP>RME Babyface Pro>Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GH>GeForce 8400>2GB DDR2 SDRAM
 
#5
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 82701
  • Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
  • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/08/31 17:58:36 (permalink)
@msorrels & Rob: You guys are right. Andrew Scheps is hack.

My name is Ed but I Am still bapu after all these years.
 
I play bass because I can't dance.
 
My Studio (summary: Win 10 64bit, I7 2600K, Asus P8P67, RME UFX, FaderPort)
 
 
The Forum Monkeys
BBZ 
The Coffee House Collaborators 
Fizzy Pickle
Stan Dupp and The Jennifer Tillies
The Coffee House Band
 
Personal projects are HERE.
#6
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9167
  • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
  • Location: SL, UT
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/08/31 18:48:37 (permalink)
well, i'm not saying he can't pull it off,
but i can't!
LOL
 
again, he's mixing in a way i don't like...
 
i don't like super saturated mixes, with no dynamics, that go for maximum volume.
and that seems to be his thing.
 
maybe not, point me to something where he mixed with this, and left dynamics in the mix?
for example, green day's 'revolution' only has a dynamic range of 05!!!
 
\christ
 

"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
https://soundcloud.com/bats-brew
--
Sonar 6 PE>Win XP>RME Babyface Pro>Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GH>GeForce 8400>2GB DDR2 SDRAM
 
#7
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 82701
  • Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
  • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/08/31 21:24:49 (permalink)
Different tool/techniques for different tastes, no doubt.

My name is Ed but I Am still bapu after all these years.
 
I play bass because I can't dance.
 
My Studio (summary: Win 10 64bit, I7 2600K, Asus P8P67, RME UFX, FaderPort)
 
 
The Forum Monkeys
BBZ 
The Coffee House Collaborators 
Fizzy Pickle
Stan Dupp and The Jennifer Tillies
The Coffee House Band
 
Personal projects are HERE.
#8
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 82701
  • Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
  • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/08/31 21:32:37 (permalink)
With over 100 album credits to his name with such diverse talent, besides Green Day, there's Beyonce, Kenny Loggins, Michael Jackson, Robbie Robertson & Red Hot Chili Peppers. I'll assume he doesn't use the technique on ONLY harder rock. If he does then he must be smart enough to know when to use it and when not to in order please his clients.
 
I get that you don't want to work that way Rob, and I say KUDOS to you. As you know, I've praised your mixing more than once.
 

My name is Ed but I Am still bapu after all these years.
 
I play bass because I can't dance.
 
My Studio (summary: Win 10 64bit, I7 2600K, Asus P8P67, RME UFX, FaderPort)
 
 
The Forum Monkeys
BBZ 
The Coffee House Collaborators 
Fizzy Pickle
Stan Dupp and The Jennifer Tillies
The Coffee House Band
 
Personal projects are HERE.
#9
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9167
  • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
  • Location: SL, UT
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/08/31 21:50:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/08/31 21:58:15
bapu,
it's not that i don't want to work THAT WAY>>>>>>>>>>
heheh,
i'm just trying to figure out what ways there are.
 
guys like this, that have been at it a long time, and have access to the best equipment,
and great artists,
they dial in their thing really well, and even when they 'share' their particulars,
i don't believe you are ever getting the total story.
 
but anyway, i tried this technique, i'm still searching for techniques, you know...
 
and i think with a much gentler hand, i could use it for my stuff....
but i experimented with some other options,
and i found other ways to get there.
 
and i don't dig listening to many albums that sit at 5DR.
it is fatiguing
 
it sounds brickwalled to me,
even the song the guy was doing in the video, just made it seem that everything was at one level.
 
apparently, the folks that buy the current crop of modern pop, really dig that sound.
 
my opinion, is that it's the only thing they've ever really heard, and don't know any different.
 
they put something like DSOTM on their playlist, and can't figure out why they can't hear it.
LOL

"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
https://soundcloud.com/bats-brew
--
Sonar 6 PE>Win XP>RME Babyface Pro>Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GH>GeForce 8400>2GB DDR2 SDRAM
 
#10
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
  • Total Posts : 24615
  • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
  • Location: Everett, WA USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/09/01 03:52:10 (permalink)
I guess I've been doing it that way for years, just without the extra bus - nowadays, there's a Mix knob on the bus compressor.
 
That said, I'm not a fan of master bus compression and rarely use it. It makes sense on a Green Day-type production, but as good as American Idiot is musically I can't stand to listen to that kind of uber-compression for very long.
 
Beyonce, I can't comment on. I turn the volume down and enjoy the skimpy costumes. She knocked it outa the park with her Etta James covers in the movie Cadillac Records, though.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#11
RSMCGUITAR
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1119
  • Joined: 2014/12/27 02:33:15
  • Location: Toronto
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/09/13 04:55:10 (permalink)
I think the point is to use this technique and bring the fader up slowly. That way you can add just a bit or totally crush it. I think if you use it sparingly your Dynamics wouldn't suffer. Especially if your tracks are dynamic to begin with.

Asus z87 - Intel 4770k - 16MB Ram - Win 10 Pro
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st Gen)_ M-Audio Oxygen 49_Korg PadKontrol
Splat ∞_Ozone7_WavesGold_Amplitube4
#12
Sheanes
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 651
  • Joined: 2013/01/30 10:31:11
  • Location: Zjwame, Netherlands
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/09/13 12:18:18 (permalink)
I tried and tried, slowly dialing in the parallel compr and even also a compressor that allows bypassing low freqs.
just never got it to groove with the uncompressed, either it was slowing the thing down or speeding it up but never got it right, just sounded bad....finally gave it up.
#13
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
  • Total Posts : 24615
  • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
  • Location: Everett, WA USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/09/13 15:35:39 (permalink)
The key is setting a relatively high threshold. You only want the loudest bits to be heavily compressed, leaving the quieter parts alone. That's where you get the upward compression effect, by summing those quiet parts that aren't compressed with the same quiet parts in the main signal, making them louder.
 
It's still an overrated technique for many genres, though. It made more sense, for example, in the old Motown days when they were trying to cram every bit of loudness into the grooves of 45 RPM records. The fact that they were successful at that was one of the reasons for the company's amazing success (although having the likes of Smokey Robinson on staff didn't hurt, either).
 
But nowadays we at least have the option of retaining dynamic range if we want to. Global parallel compression does not help achieve "punch". Not every track requires punch, e.g. vocals. But drums certainly do. So for punchy genres we're better of being selective about which elements get the parallel compression treatment.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#14
Jeff Evans
Max Output Level: -28.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4696
  • Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
  • Location: Ballarat, Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/09/14 07:57:04 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby synkrotron 2017/09/14 13:59:49
I suggest watching the video in the OP.  I think this thread has drifted off into something else a little. The title of the thread is also partially wrong because the whole mix is not being processed at all.
 
Firstly the whole mix is not being sent to the parallel compression buss.  Only part of of it. Everything minus the drums.  So that to me changes everything.  This is not the same as Dave's use of the mix knob on a compressor over the whole mix either.  It is actually something different.
 
Also the compressor being used on the parallel buss is actually going into a fair bit of gain reduction hence a lower threshold.  This is also different to Dave's suggestion of a high threshold over a whole mix. 
 
Because the drums are not actually activating the compressor as they would be all the time it means other stuff is and it is varying as he suggests in the video. 
 
This sounds like a good concept to me, the concept explained in the video.  Not just parallel compression over the entire mix. For those who are not getting results go back and do what he suggests. 

Specs i5-2500K 3.3 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport - Studio One V3.5 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.5 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface 
 
Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
#15
TheMaartian
Max Output Level: -52.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2256
  • Joined: 2015/05/21 18:30:52
  • Location: Flagstaff, AZ
  • Status: offline
Re: Parallel Compression on the Whole Mix – the ‘Rear Buss’ Technique 2017/09/14 14:17:15 (permalink)
Jeff Evans
I suggest watching the video in the OP.  I think this thread has drifted off into something else a little. The title of the thread is also partially wrong because the whole mix is not being processed at all.
 
Firstly the whole mix is not being sent to the parallel compression buss.  Only part of of it. Everything minus the drums.  So that to me changes everything.  This is not the same as Dave's use of the mix knob on a compressor over the whole mix either.  It is actually something different.
 
Also the compressor being used on the parallel buss is actually going into a fair bit of gain reduction hence a lower threshold.  This is also different to Dave's suggestion of a high threshold over a whole mix. 
 
Because the drums are not actually activating the compressor as they would be all the time it means other stuff is and it is varying as he suggests in the video. 
 
This sounds like a good concept to me, the concept explained in the video.  Not just parallel compression over the entire mix. For those who are not getting results go back and do what he suggests. 

Corrected. Thanks.

Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 64-bit Tascam US-16x08
SONAR Platinum Melodyne 4 Studio Rhyme Genie 9 Gig Performer 1
Nektar Panorama P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro
NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2 Toontrack SD3, EZK
#16
Jump to:
© 2017 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1