Peaking Master

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konradh
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2013/07/29 11:38:13 (permalink)

Peaking Master

A post by another user prompted me to ask this.
 
A song I was working sounded fine and had good solid levels but in two or three places hit the red on Master for a brief instant.  I heard nothing amiss but it worried me to see red on Master, so I basically went by to scratch and remixed it, with a result of a lower level mix.  (And it sounds lower level that its companions on the album.)
 
Should I have just let it go?  Or is it always bad to see a little red square, not matter how briefly?

Konrad
Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
#1

15 Replies Related Threads

    gswitz
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 11:42:52 (permalink)
    Why not bring it up with a limiter to the same rms as the rest of the album?

    For me, I never accept any known clips as it is a slippery slope.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #2
    konradh
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 11:45:07 (permalink)
    gswitz, You are correct although I need a better limiter.  Boost11 sounds weird sometimes and the choices in EZMix are sometimes good (sometimes not) but they let peaks through.  I am thinking about Ozone.
     
    I will take your advice, although I am curious if those instantaneous peaks are a problem.

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
    #3
    scook
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 11:50:29 (permalink)
    It may just as easy to do a little volume automation to handle occasional peak problems. It should be possible to zoom it and make very accurate and subtle adjustments to keep it out of the red. A good limiter is an essential piece of gear though.
    #4
    phrygiann
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 12:03:39 (permalink)
    sometimes use boost 11 without using the boost knob just the limiter knob. I can hear the weird sound at 5 level setting on the boost knob but nothing weird when using the limiter alone. My ear is not yet fully trained that i may be wrong.

     Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit; AMD Phenom™ II quad-core processor 820; 8GB DDR3 SDRAM; 3.1GHz oc'd; 1TB hard drive; 1 TB 2nd hdrive, 1 TB usb 3.0 external HD.    Roland Quad-capture, Casio PX-310; senheisser MK-4, Shure SM-58; Senheisser HD 380 pro, krk rokit6. Subaru forester 2012. 
    #5
    konradh
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 12:06:47 (permalink)
    phrygiann, Good comment.  I (dumbly) did not think of that.
     
    Still curious if you guys think a quick red dot is always fatal.

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
    #6
    SuperG
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 12:13:35 (permalink)
    Always. Ozone is a good investment.

    laudem Deo
    #7
    CJaysMusic
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 12:15:01 (permalink)
    If it clipped during the mastering, then there is no reason to remix it as a better mastering of the song would have fixed it. It looks to me as your using the term "masteirng" very loosely,as if it was mastered, it would not be clipping and it would be on the level of other songs in that genre.
     
    FYI: Boost 11 is not a good tool for this. Its very harsh and you have no control over the attack, ratio and release times and these settings are very important if you want to keep the punch and dynamics of the song.
     
    CJ

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
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    #8
    gswitz
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 12:17:02 (permalink)
    Fatal .no. I just have a work habit of not tolerating them ever. How would you feel riding in a car showing off the mix if the car eq suddenly made the clip glaring?

    I had a friend who was shocked to find that could raise my finger ever time his mix clipped. He didn't think it was audible. He admitted that it was clipping , and he didn't think it was noticeable.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
    #9
    John
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 15:51:03 (permalink)
    Being it the red from time to time is nothing to get worried about. The only thing is don't let it clip.
     
    If you see it peak once in awhile in the red all that means is its using most of the available bits. Thats is not a bad thing.  

    Best
    John
    #10
    pianodano
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 16:01:07 (permalink)
    John
    Being it the red from time to time is nothing to get worried about. The only thing is don't let it clip.
     
    If you see it peak once in awhile in the red all that means is its using most of the available bits. Thats is not a bad thing.  




    What John said. But if the top cherry red light comes on (and stays red until you click it or replay) it clipped most likely.

    Best,

    Danny

    Core I7, win XP pro, 3 gig ram, 3 drives- Lynx Aurora firewire- Roll around 27 inch monitor, 42 inch console monitor- Motif xs controller - Networked P4's and FX Teleport for samples- Muse Receptor VIA Uniwire for samples and plugs- UAD QUAD Neve - UAD 1- Sonar X1 but favor 8.5 GUI - Toft ATB 32 - Vintage hardware - Tascam MS-16 synched via Timeline Microlynx -Toft ATB32 console
    #11
    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 16:37:20 (permalink)
    I guess you are talking about a premastered mix. I say don't sweat it at all, it is not worth it. If you cannot hear it then it is not important. You are being influenced by what you see rather than by what you hear and that can be a mistake. It is certainly not worth remixing to a lower level just for the sake of one or two peaks here and there. Then you end up with a mix that is overall lower and you will have to pull the whole mix up further in mastering.
     
    I might be using a K-14 reference for example and have a great mix with great pre mastered level but there may be one or two peaks for whatever reason. If you cannot hear them then leave it alone. In mastering those peaks are going to be shaved off anyway by the limiter. Sometimes I open the premastered mix inside an editor and limit the whole track to say -1 db and 99.9 % of the mix wont be touched except for a few clips here and there and they get limited to -1dB. It is more of a visual thing then for peace of mind.
     
    You must stop using Boost 11, it is the worst limiter on the planet. To my ears it actually degrades the sound of a mix.

    Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface 
     
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    #12
    John
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 16:44:30 (permalink)
    "You must stop using Boost 11, it is the worst limiter on the planet. To my ears it actually degrades the sound of a mix." 
     
    Not my favorite either. I called it the Spinal Tap plugin.  I do recommend the Concrete Limiter for Pro Channel.  
     
     

    Best
    John
    #13
    jonny3d
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 22:38:22 (permalink)
    Hey I just picked up WAVES L1  for only $39 bucks (regular $200) 
     
    it is a solid and historic piece of gear
     
    Do not miss this opportunity...I LOVE IT ...and I have T-Racks Limiter ..Flux and others..
     
    T-Racks WAS my favorite before the L1.
     
    I hope it still available....... IT's an UNBELIEVABLE BUY!!
     
    Let me know!!
     
    #14
    lawajava
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/29 22:45:56 (permalink)
    I consider the Concrete Limiter an essential. Sounds great, easy to use, looks great. Fits right in visibly in the ProChannel.

    Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
    #15
    konradh
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    Re: Peaking Master 2013/07/30 10:40:12 (permalink)
    Good stuff, guys.  To be clear, this was not mastering, just mixing and watching the Master bus.  Also, the red was a fraction of a fraction of a second: something you would never see on a VU meter.
     
    I will pick up Ozone.
     
    And I have fixed the mix: this was more of an opportunity to see what you guys think.
     
    Thanks.
     
     

    Konrad
    Current album and more: http://www.themightykonrad.com/

    Sonar X1d Producer. V-Studio 700. PC: Intel i7 CPU 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM. Win 7 64-bit. RealGuitar, RealStrat, RealLPC, Ivory II, Vienna Symphonic, Hollywood Strings, Electr6ity, Acoustic Legends, FabFour, Scarbee Rick/J-Bass/P-Bass, Kontakt 5. NI Session Guitar. Boldersounds, Noisefirm. EZ Drummer 2. EZ Mix. Melodyne Assist. Guitar Rig 4. Tyros 2, JV-1080, Kurzweil PC2R, TC Helicon VoiceWorks+. Rode NT2a, EV RE20. Presonus Eureka.  Rokit 6s. 
    #16
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