Peaking!

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albert_kawmi
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2006/01/25 09:35:44 (permalink)

Peaking!

Hi again,

I am using the Edirol UA-25 USB audio interface and find that it seems to peak very easily - that is, it sets of the 'Peak Limiter' LED on the Edirol interface and shows volume bars in the red in the recording software. e.g. when recording electronic drumkit or even some synth programs that have a bassy pulse, peaks seem to occur even when playing at (what I believe to be) reasonable volume. If i decrease the sensitivity of the input to the UA-25, then the recorded track sounds too quiet (albeit without peaks). Is this a technical limitation of my audio interface? Would upgrading to a different type of interface (Firewire?) help in this respect? I can't imagine it has to do with the transfer rate... I'm just not sure. I will give two example problems to clarify:

1. Recording a Roland Electronic Drumkit, hitting the bass or snare too hard causes a peak, but otherwise, signal is not distorted. So I turn down the 'sens' on the UA-25 but this results in a rather quiet drum track! (At the moment I then go on to layer duplicate tracks in software, or use some other crude method - like overdrive - to boost the volume of the track)

2. Bassy pulses on certain synth sounds can also trigger peaks. (at the moment I just stay away from these sounds, but I would like to use some of them!)

However, when plugging my guitar in, or using a microphone (SM58 mostly) I don't have a problem with peaks. Any tips about this would be really helpful. Thanks again.

Cheers,

Albert

http://www.myspace.com/nevadabase
Pentium Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz, 2GB RAM, 460GB Hard disk(s)
Windows XP Home (32-bit), Sonar 7 Producer
Yamaha 01X, i88X mLAN audio interface
#1

7 Replies Related Threads

    daverich
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    RE: Peaking! 2006/01/25 10:12:56 (permalink)
    if you're recording in 24bit then anything over -48db is at a higher fidelity than 16bit audio.

    You have ALOT of headroom so don't try and record near the red - turn your monitors up and record at more moderate levels.

    You can worry about pushing nearer the red when mixing and mastering.

    Kind regards

    Dave Rich

    For Sale - 10.5x7ft Whisperroom recording booth.

    http://www.daverichband.com
    http://www.soundclick.com/daverich
    #2
    mgaretz
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    RE: Peaking! 2006/01/25 13:26:46 (permalink)
    IMHO the best way to solve this problem is with an external limiter. This allows you to get a lot of level on the track without distortion. I know that some will say it's better to record at 24 bit at lower levels then boost it in the mix and this gives you the same performance as 16 bit. But to me that's a waste of bandwidth. If I'm going to record at 24 bits I want all that dynamic range and lower noise floor.
    #3
    albert_kawmi
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    RE: Peaking! 2006/02/03 12:45:18 (permalink)
    hi again,
    hadn't been able to check the forum for a while but thanks for the replies guys. i was fortunate enough to get a few hours of sound engineering lessons in my school days and i distinctly remember the emphasis being put on recording as close to the red as possible, to make use of the full bandwidth i guess - like mgartez suggested.

    i don't really know anything about this in detail, but it does seem to make sense that you would want your sound to take up the full 'space' of the signal. dave, do you find any drawbacks to the software technique?

    mgartez, what would an external limiter entail? is that a separate piece of hardware? my audio interface has a peak/limiter LED... but it seems like there is something more...

    finally, what do you think of layering tracks as a way to create thickness (as oppsed to just cranking up the dBs). Is it a viable alternative? I have tried it on my guitar tracks, but just doesn't feel to have the same fullness as a track that is recorded louder.

    thanks again,

    Albert

    http://www.myspace.com/nevadabase
    Pentium Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz, 2GB RAM, 460GB Hard disk(s)
    Windows XP Home (32-bit), Sonar 7 Producer
    Yamaha 01X, i88X mLAN audio interface
    #4
    TheFingers
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    RE: Peaking! 2006/02/03 13:24:29 (permalink)
    if you're recording in 24bit then anything over -48db is at a higher fidelity than 16bit audio.


    What a great way to put it simply. By "fidelity", are you referring to dynamic range?

    1973 "A" neck.

    I'd rather be playing Bass:
    #5
    TheFingers
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    RE: Peaking! 2006/02/03 13:30:13 (permalink)
    finally, what do you think of layering tracks as a way to create thickness (as oppsed to just cranking up the dBs). Is it a viable alternative? I have tried it on my guitar tracks, but just doesn't feel to have the same fullness as a track that is recorded louder.


    Parallel compression works for this.

    i don't really know anything about this in detail, but it does seem to make sense that you would want your sound to take up the full 'space' of the signal. dave, do you find any drawbacks to the software technique?


    if you're recording in 24bit then anything over -48db is at a higher fidelity than 16bit audio


    What this says to me is 24 bit gives you 48dB of headroom over the same relative input level at 16 bit.

    1973 "A" neck.

    I'd rather be playing Bass:
    #6
    yep
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    RE: Peaking! 2006/02/03 13:48:03 (permalink)
    Albert-- the emphasis on pushing the levels close to the red is somewhat outdated if you're recording 24-bit digital. The reasoning is long and complicated, and you can run a search for it, but 24-bit digital does not have the inherit noise floor of analog tape, and it has more dynamic range than human hearing, so there is little need to obsess about getting close to peak level.

    Also the distorted "peaks" you are referring to are technically called "clipping" or "digital overs." A "peak" is just the loudest part of any soundwave-- there's nothing wrong with "peaks" unless they actually "clip."

    you said:

    If i decrease the sensitivity of the input to the UA-25, then the recorded track sounds too quiet (albeit without peaks).


    That's correct, go ahead and record with the track too quiet, and then use a plugin effect, either a limiter or a compressor to bring the level back up. This is exactly what compression and limiting are for-- they "limit" or "compress" the difference between the loudest and quietest parts of a sound, allowing you to "turn up" the main body and impact of the sound, WITHOUT turning up the "peak." So the "main" part of the sound gets louder, but the peak doesn't.

    Make sense?

    You might find it beneficial to check out a book such as Modern Recording Techniques or Home Recording for Dummies to refresh your memory and catch up on some of the developments in the past few years.

    Cheers.


    #7
    dude24man
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    RE: Peaking! 2006/02/03 15:08:29 (permalink)
    Peaking!!!!!! I remember that used to happen to me when I did shrooms. Arthur
    #8
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