AnsweredPhantom Power via TRS?

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ThomasPP
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2018/01/13 00:19:07 (permalink)

Phantom Power via TRS?

Hello
First of all, I don't know a thing about mics.
Okay, the thing is, I have a PCI audio interface
I want to buy the Behringer Condenser C-1, but it requires Phantom Power and the audio interface only has TRS connectors BUT in the audio interface's page says "Balanced TRS (+48V Phantom Power support)" so, if I buy a cable XLR to TRS and I activate the option (in the mixer there's a button that I guess it's for supply the 48V) it would work? Or I really have to buy a Phantom Power provider?
Thanks.
Well I can't post any links so the audio interface is the Infrasonic's Quartet PCI Audio Interface
#1
Rbh
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/13 00:31:57 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby ThomasPP 2018/01/13 00:35:57
Sounds like it should work. Do be cautious of plugging and unplugging mics while phantom power is switched on. The intermittent connections while plugging and UN-plugging can cause UN-grounded voltage spike in dynamic mics that can cause damage.

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#2
ThomasPP
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/13 00:37:47 (permalink)
Yeah, I have read about that, thanks for the answer!
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soens
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/13 09:59:00 (permalink)
I'd be cautious doing this. Read this thread from a few years ago. TRS jacks can also accept TS plugs. If you should plug in a TS (unbalanced) mic with PhPwr on you could ruin the mic. The best way to handle phantom power is thru XLR. Either way, it's best to keep the channel levels down or off when turning ON a PhPwr source.
 
 
#4
GaryMedia
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/14 17:16:33 (permalink)
ThomasPP
Hello
First of all, I don't know a thing about mics.
Okay, the thing is, I have a PCI audio interface
I want to buy the Behringer Condenser C-1, but it requires Phantom Power and the audio interface only has TRS connectors BUT in the audio interface's page says "Balanced TRS (+48V Phantom Power support)" so, if I buy a cable XLR to TRS and I activate the option (in the mixer there's a button that I guess it's for supply the 48V) it would work? Or I really have to buy a Phantom Power provider?
Thanks.
Well I can't post any links so the audio interface is the Infrasonic's Quartet PCI Audio Interface




I looked up the Infrasonic Quartet PCI interface on NewEgg, and seems to be like many other line-level devices with TRS inputs. There is no hint of anything in the specifications that imply that it can provide phantom power, and there's nothing to imply that it has gain capable of running any microphone.   There's a one-liner that says Mic-In 'yes', but I think it's a typo. 
 
Secondly, any properly designed interface will not allow phantom power to be applied to the TRS pins. That's just a formula for disaster to be foisted on the synth that you plug into the TRS port. 
 
If you can Private Message me with the info that you have that implies that is has +48V phantom power support, I'd like to see it.   Like I said, even if you could get the phantom power to the microphone, you'd still need at least 30dB of gain to make the mic work for you, and I don't think this product supplies that.

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#5
Jim Roseberry
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/14 18:02:41 (permalink)
You need a mic pre-amp to get the mic signal up to line level.
There's no way around this.
Feeding the mic straight to a 1/4" TRS input (even if the phantom power side worked)... would result in extremely low signal level being recorded.

Best Regards,

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wst3
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/14 18:28:02 (permalink)
First, it really is bad idea to use TRS connections for phantom power. This has been a question for decades, and you will find studios where the microphones run through a standard 1/4" or Bantam/TT TRS jack field. Those engineers learned quickly to turn phantom power off except when a signal path was complete - which isn't a terrible idea anyway.

You don't mention which sound card you are using. I am unaware of any sound card that provides phantom power on a TRS connector, but I don't know them all. Jim's comment about signal levels may also apply. Does the sound card provide 50-60 dB of gain on those inputs?

You are probably close to a good solution, but do dig a little further.

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#7
gswitz
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/15 12:56:57 (permalink)
My ribbon mics make me careful with phantom power.

I don't normally plug in mics with phantom on, although I'm sure it happens. That said, i probably do start breaking down... Unplugging mics... Before disabling phantom.

I'm going to change that practice.

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post edited by gswitz - 2018/01/15 13:28:00

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msorrels
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/15 20:00:23 (permalink)
The site/manual for that card is pretty clear it does do 48v phantom power on the TRS input 1/2.  With this warning:
 
CAUTION
Before connecting the condenser microphone to QUARTET, please make sure, that the +48V
phantom power is disabled. Before powering  the phantom power on/off, also please make
sure that the connection is firm and secure. If you do not respect this caution, electric shock
may harm your microphone and QUARTET.
 
Here's the manual:
http://simsaudio.co.kr/sims_infrasonic/bbs/docs/manuals/quartet_manual_eng_v3.0_D111128_pub.zip
 
It also supports Microphone pre-amp with a jumper for +20db,+40db,and+60db (default is +40db).
 
So while it's an electrically bad setup, I actually think it can work.  If you get a cable and watch the red light that indicates the 48v is on.  When that light is on, I'd say do not plug anything in or out.
 

-Matt
 
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TheMaartian
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/15 21:17:20 (permalink)
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
 
Here's a secret from my hardware design days (telemetry equipment for oil field, et. al, control)...
 
ALL electronic devices are made out of smoke.
 
When the smoke gets out, they stop working.
 
This is a really good recipe for smoke.
 
And not the kind that'll put a smile on your face.

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GaryMedia
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/15 21:32:51 (permalink)
Thank you Mr. msorrels for posting the link to the product manual.  I read through it, I was concurrently fascinated and horrified. 
 
The jumper-based gain control, and TRS cable connecting three different modes of the 1/2 input has got to be a heartbreaking introduction to the joys of recording, while making one ripe for war stories about stuff being hard to use, and easy to break. 
 
Best wishes to Mr. ThomasPP, the OP.
 
 

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jimfogle
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/16 02:03:44 (permalink)
Here is the product's website:  http://www.infra-sonic.com/.  Click on support, then manuals and you'll find the owner's manuals at the bottom of the page.  There has been three owner's manuals; one in 2007, one in 2008 and the last in 2011.
 
All three manuals indicate the card can provide phantom power through the TRS inputs.

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ThomasPP
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/18 21:09:41 (permalink)
Hello guys, thanks for your answers! ♥
I didn't think I would have this attention
I bring news:
So, I bought the cable (XLR to TRS), and connected it to the interface (obviously with the phantom power off) and then, I turned on the phantom power, and the microphone works, yes, BUT, it is heard very, very low (I have to scream almost so I can hear my voice) and with something that seems to be like static, all this with the phantom power turned on. Now, I set the jumper to -20db as the manual says, I also raise the gain to 18 in the mixer, but it's the same. Also, there is a light on the Samson C01 that should light up when the phantom power is delivered, but it does not.

I guess I'll have to buy a phantom power?
I'm in a really tight budget
 
Thank you again!
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TheMaartian
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/18 21:27:48 (permalink)
ThomasPP
Hello guys, thanks for your answers! ♥
I didn't think I would have this attention
I bring news:
So, I bought the cable (XLR to TRS), and connected it to the interface (obviously with the phantom power off) and then, I turned on the phantom power, and the microphone works, yes, BUT, it is heard very, very low (I have to scream almost so I can hear my voice) and with something that seems to be like static, all this with the phantom power turned on. Now, I set the jumper to -20db as the manual says, I also raise the gain to 18 in the mixer, but it's the same. Also, there is a light on the Samson C01 that should light up when the phantom power is delivered, but it does not.

I guess I'll have to buy a phantom power?
I'm in a really tight budget
 
Thank you again!


The only pretty much decent cheap mic preamp that I'm aware of is the ART Tube MP. It's $55 at Sweetwater and on Amazon. Other than that, you're looking at $200+. It has both XLR and TRS inputs and outputs.
 
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TubeMP
 
http://artproaudio.com/mic_preamps/product/tube_mp-original/
 


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GaryMedia
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/18 21:39:42 (permalink)
ThomasPP... BUT, it is heard very, very low (I have to scream almost so I can hear my voice) and with something that seems to be like static, all this with the phantom power turned on. Now, I set the jumper to -20db as the manual says,....




Your mission is to confirm that the cable is properly wired (TRS = 2/3/1 on the XLR) and then confirm that the phantom power software control works properly.  Then, although your Samson C01 is about average sensitivity as condenser microphones go (-33dBV/Pa) it would cost you nothing to set the jumper to the default +40dB gain position to see what happens. 

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msorrels
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Re: Phantom Power via TRS? 2018/01/18 23:19:15 (permalink)
I'd bet your cable isn't completely wired.

-Matt
 
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