mancelot
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Phase issues on ALL tracks...
I'm not a total newb, but this might just be one of those basic things that I am missing in a setting somewhere or a routing issue of some kind... Every track in sonar recorded or not, seems to have phase issues. I recently discovered that using the phase plugin from sonitus on all of my tracks has GREATLY improved my sound. Can anyone tell me why all of my tracks might be phased all the way one direction or another?? A little about my setup: I use a Mackie ProFX 16 and I run out of the sub 1&2 into the VS-100 3-4 inputs.
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 12:22:19
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first off, we need to know how you recorded each instruemtn/vocal. when you used 2 mic's, did you check for Phase?? When ever you use 2 or more microphones, you need to check for phase. There is also a reverse phase button on each track, did you enable it by accident? CJ
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mancelot
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 12:26:16
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That's the puzzling thing... most of these were done one instrument or voice with one condencser mic. When I play the tracks, it shows the phase as being completely right or left (I can't recall which right now) .. When I play more than one track together, regardless of panning the phase meter shows almost a mono correlation spectrum until I adjust the phase.
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:03:31
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:03:41
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mancelot
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 12:35:05
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the interleaves are mostly mono. The Monitor that shows me the phase correlation is on the master bus which is stereo. Typically, I will just plug a microphone into the mixer and then route that channel to the sub 1 & 2 pair out which goes into the VS100 Left 3/4 in Sonar.
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:03:51
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mancelot
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 12:55:30
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I appreciate that, Mike. I have a feeling it's going to be something ridiculous. :) I have nothing between the track and the bus. I discovered this totally raw. I don't have my machine in front of me right now.. I was hoping someone could just say something like "Yeah dummy... you have to route your blah blah to the whoosywhatsis"
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brundlefly
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 14:22:40
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mancelot When I play more than one track together, regardless of panning the phase meter shows almost a mono correlation spectrum until I adjust the phase.
I'm not sure what this means. Are you saying that two mono signals recorded at different times show a high correlation? They should be pretty much uncorrelated, even if they're the same part played on the same instrument. As such, different frequency components will go in and out of phase pretty much at random, and should not be particularly audible except maybe in the low bass region where you probably want to avoid mixing similar signals, especially if they're not panned hard left and right. I'm not super-knowledgeable in this area, but I'd like to understand the problem better, and whether it's really an audible issue or just a spectral analysis phenomenon, and maybe a characteristic of the particular way in which the Sonitus plug-in derives and displays the information.
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stevec
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 14:54:48
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mancelot Typically, I will just plug a microphone into the mixer and then route that channel to the sub 1 & 2 pair out which goes into the VS100 Left 3/4 in Sonar.
Does this mean you're taking your mono mic input and feeding the VS100 both left and right signals? If so, I'd expect one of those to be "empty" and display as a one-sided stereo waveform.
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John
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 14:55:55
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There is is no "phase" on a mono file. You are adding phase with the Sonitus plugin and creating a stereo output. Above no phase. The phase plugin is bypassed. Below is with the plugin on and working and an adjustment to the phase.
post edited by John - 2013/08/22 15:08:47
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brconflict
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 16:32:27
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Isn't Sonitus Phase a Stereo plug-in only? In other words, if a stereo-plugin is used on a mono track, it will do some weird things.
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John
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 17:01:11
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I think it can be used for more than just adjusting phase. I think its as you say a stereo plugin that is for turning a mono track into a stereo track. I could be wrong.
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:04:09
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John
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 17:15:41
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I may not get this but I don't think its that difficult. I have the Phase plugin on the track that was recorded as mono from a mono input. The Melda stereo plugin only shows what is going on with the buss it is on. It adds nothing. There is nothing sad about the inspector. Its a huge improvement for those of us that have a need to see more about a track than can be shown in the track header. BTW both Cubase and Logic have a very similar setup. Just not as convenient
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brconflict
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 17:35:07
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I just reviewed the FX video "Sonar Advanced Workshop: Producer Effects". Karl states the Phase plug-in is only for Stereo tracks. Personally, I'd take his word for it, because Fast Biker Boy does find all the Ins and Outs of all of these features.
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brundlefly
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/22 17:35:40
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I thought the OP was talking about about some Sonitus plug not included with SONAR what had a spectrum analyzer in it. I just did a quick test of the included plug in the default LR mode, and if you give it a mono signal, and move the phase control to -180 or +180, it just sends out identical left and right signals that are 180 degrees out of phase. You can verify this by changing the interleave on the Master bus to mono, and hearing that track's signal go silent because the perfectly out-of-phase-but-identical signals are being summed. So I'm no closer to understanding the OP's concern is, but at least I understand what the Sonitus Phase part of the puzzle is doing (assuming he's leaving it in LR mode).
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:04:19
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mancelot
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/23 10:06:21
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I appreciate all of your responses and patience with my ignorance on this subject! I will post screens tonight when I get home so that we can clear up some of the confusion I have caused. For now I guess a good way to ask this is: Is phase manipulation typically the first thing you do after recording tracks before you actually start mixing?
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:04:29
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John
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/23 10:53:48
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mancelot I appreciate all of your responses and patience with my ignorance on this subject! I will post screens tonight when I get home so that we can clear up some of the confusion I have caused. For now I guess a good way to ask this is: Is phase manipulation typically the first thing you do after recording tracks before you actually start mixing?
No. Phase is not something that is a problem in the vast majority of projects. Its only when you start screwing with it that problems arise.
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/23 12:27:15
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I have come to the conclusion that this is nothing if they where all recorded in mono and each instrument was recorded in different takes, at different times and are all mono tracks or different tracks recorded at the same time. You are not dealing with phase. Your thinking too much into it and letting a plugin and not your ears tell you what sounds good and what doesn't... If the tracks sound normal, then proceed to do what ever you want to do with these track. If you are hearing something that is off and you think its a phase issue, then its definitely not a Phase issue as they are all mono tracks recorded at different times. You might be confusing Phase with a thin sounding, poorly recorded track or something. You have a better chance of winning Power-ball and getting struck buy lighting at the same exact time then you do if you recorded 2 different takes at different times and there are phasing eachother or 2 different instruments at the same time....... CJ
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:04:38
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dan le
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/23 14:04:42
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Hi: When you record, did you click on stereo in instead of L or R in. That is the only way that your recording goes Left or Right? dan
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mancelot
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/26 15:43:47
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I thank you all once again, and I apologize for wasting time. This was a combination of my ignorance on the subject of phase, and partially that I was in fact simply enjoying the sound of the way the plugin interacted with the sound. I was reading the meter incorrectly, which was leading me to believe that I had a phase issue, when in fact, I did not. (moron) :) Sorry again.. and thanks for all of the assistance!!
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The Maillard Reaction
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post edited by The Maillard Reaction - 2018/12/23 01:04:49
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John
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/26 16:12:22
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I don't think you are a moron in the slightest. You had the good sense to post here and find out what was really going on. That is very smart.
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mancelot
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/26 16:12:43
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gswitz
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Re: Phase issues on ALL tracks...
2013/08/27 13:09:37
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mancelot "you have to route your blah blah to the whoosywhatsis"
Isn't this what we all do ? Smiles
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