Piano EQ

I normally use Synthogy Ivory II, German D (Steinway) for piano.  It sounds great, but I don't feel like I quite get the bell-like clarity I am looking for. Very close,  but I am not 100% happy.
 
Of course, you will say "it all depends," but does anyone have a particular starting EQ that works well for a large grand?  This would be generally for pop or Broadway-type music, but I only say that to clarify that I am not looking for a hard or thin rock/country sound--just sweet, clear, and not muddy.
 
Thanks.

Bitflipper nailed it - pretty much the perfect approach IMHO.

Hi, I use Synthogy Ivory II as well. I think the Steinway is my favourite too. Have you tried experimenting with the different Keysets? Some of the harder Keysets give a brighter attack without sounding thin and tinny like the Yamaha Grand. -Mark.

I have spent literally hours working on digital pianos recording them on 100's of songs and probably have just about every piano library there is (Ivory/Play Quantum Leap Gold. Pianoteq -and all the older ones.) I have abandoned all of them. I much prefer the Yamaha Motif XS, S90es, Clavinova pianos. Much more full bodied. I can send you some samples of the sound. Of course, a Motif or Motif XS Rack or Clavinova (except the old Clavinovas which are cheap  and sound great - I use one as a controller CLP 170.) is a lot more expensive but if you play a lot of piano I think you will be more satisfied with an outboard Yamaha unit. Send me a sample of what you have and I'll send you some. Yes, it has driven me crazy. Or better yet, send me a bun a midi file of your playing, an mp3 of what it sounds like, and I'll send you an mp3 back of the Motif. A lot more body. I have even gone so far as to run my piano through a good sub and mic that sub while I am recording my take -or just play my take back through it afterwards.
 
There is however no solution sad to say. It's digital. But you know that.
 
As far as the eq, I do usually cut a slow curve from around 250 all the way up to 4k, and boost around 50 to 100 on the lo end and add air at the top -usually around 12k.

duplicate post-sorry

The Yamaha digital pianos have a good timbre in a live band setting, full without being muddy and bright without being thin. I also like the dynamics when playing them from their own keyboard.

But I would never consider them anywhere close to the realism Ivory II (or similar libraries) provide. My Korg Kronos is much closer there (using unlooped samples) but timbre is of course a matter of taste.

Play a few longer notes.

+1 for MOTIF XS Piano (and other sounds).  I have almost 2 TB of excellent sample libraries (Rapture Pro, Komplete Ultimate, EW Cloud Composer Plus, and just about all the Bolder, Embertone and SonicCouture stuff), but when I can't find the sound I'm looking for, I often turn to that sweet Yamaha keyboard.  In addition to some versatile pianos, it's got some great Rhodes and Bass presets, a killer soft legato alto sax, some nice nylon-string guitars, and others. 
 
But you have to look at your waveform after you record and advance the track a few ticks since, at least with my setup, there is a little lag between the MIDI timing and the audio return.

I'm going to load up Ivory again and give it a go. I just loaded up Quantum Leap Platinum using the room and player mics messing around with the lid and stereo width and I am enjoying it - right now. We'll see when it comes to record. I will try Ivory again. Glad you started the thread and hope you find an eq to suit. I have also tried Waves RBass to fatten them up and that's nice if done subtly and tastefully.
 
I still like the S90es and Motif XS rack pianos - even holding out long notes. I guess it's the warmth I like.
 
 

Thanks for the discussion, guys.
 
In answer to the questions:
1-I am a pianist.  I've had many years of classical training, but due to some minor hand injuries and lack of practice, you won't see me competing in the Van Cliburn.   I've also had a lot of years as a studio player (piano, synths, drum programming, acoustic guitar, etc.)
2-I am very happy with Ivory.  What prompted the question was a song I wrote and am arranging right now for piano, orchestra, and voice.  The piano is very exposed in the first verse.  Ivory sounds good--no complaints at all.  I was just looking for a brighter sound without getting it too harsh or thin.
3-The solution I found was a combination of scaling the velocity and using the EQ options in the Ivory player.  But the quest for the perfect piano continues.
 
The first studio where I worked as a regular session player had a Steinway with two pencil mics.  Those ran to a Third Octave graphic EQ with the most complicated set of boosts and cuts I've ever seen.  There were at least four signs on the EQ that said, "DO NOT TOUCH! EVER!" along with some skulls and crossbones. I will admit that it sounded good.  The engineer did not have the kind of technical understanding that most of you do, but he had several gold records and he knew how to use mics and EQ to get good organic sounds.  Unfortunately, he died recently due to his alcohol use, so I can't call on him for help.
 
PS I have a Kawai digital piano in my living room just for fun. People say it is awesome but I wouldn't put it on a record.
 

Thanks.  Your love of some of the keyboard solutions you mention indicates to me that you have very different idea about piano sounds that I do--and that's good.  If everyone did the same thing, we wouldn't have ever had Debussy or The Beatles.
 
Reviews of Ivory in trade magazines consistently put it in the top 2 or 3.  I don't think that means it's best but I do think it means it fits a lot of people's idea about a "standard piano sound."
 
Since I have a big Vienna collection, I also have their Imperial Grand but it doesn't have the velocity responsiveness of Ivory which is 20 levels.  (Obviously, 127 MIDI velocity levels but 20 different samples per note to represent the timbre changes associated with velocity.)  The Kurzweil I used to love and still have was famous for its "triple strike"--three velocity layers.
 
Back in my studio session days, some producers would tell me to "beat the $h!t" out of the piano, even when playing a ballad because they liked the bright tone a Steinway would give when played hard.   If I had a day full of country session, my forearms and wrists would be cramped from hammering chords all day long.

I seriously want to get back into eastwest sounds and get one of their multimiked pianos. Although I did biy Grand Rhapsody from Waves. Isn't too shabby and doesn't need a lot of eq really because of the different microphone pick-ups.

I am hardly a pianist, but still I love to play and learn/transfer anything I do learn or know on guitar (54 years "pro" yesterday!) or mandolin, to piano.
    I found this thread very interesting. I still use my trusty old K2500 for piano, though I have added xln's collection ($29), NI The Giant, the IK Alan Parsons Imperial Grand and then there are some others, like in DSF, GPO5, and TruePianos Amber. I am always messing with the EQ and "room/reverb", trying to achieve the sound I heard (or thought I heard!), whenever I got to try a real Steinway D.
   I worked with a woman for a "one off" concert, and got to try her Bosendorfer a few times. She went to Germany to buy it and had it shipped back to Michigan, saving thousands and thousands of dollars. It was extremely nice, but I seem to "hear Steinways", still! LOL
    Though I've thought about Ivory, I haven't taken that plunge, yet. Most recently I've thought about the Waves Rhapsody, Sonivox and after Craig Anderton's review in the latest Music + Tech, the Rapture Pro SampleTekk.
    I can tell that it's like "casting" an acoustic guitar for a part..... "this one? Nope"   ?that one?  Nope"   "how about this one?" etc till you find one that suits the track/part/arrangement, etc.
     Thanks for the thread guys. It's been informative. Konradh; I hope you find that elusive "twinkling air".
Michael

Thank you KonradH for getting me to give Ivory a third try (I had it years ago, stopped using, loaded again a few years later, stopped using, and this time is charm. I can hardly practice on my other pianos now. I load up Cantabile now just to play when I only have a few minutes. I have it going through 2 Elac Subs ever so slightly to give me the warmth I was missing (aka soundboard) for tracking and playing, and will experiment with recording possibilities to give it more depth. I have tried Waves S1 Imager but it thins it out and I don't want that.
 
It will never sound as real as a real piano but I don't think they are developing anything better to my knowledge. Keyscape didn't seem to be that much different or better. I have Quantum Leaps. Will send you my settings (ambience, eq, pedal, resonance) someday. If you have one you like, I would like to give it a try.