Piano exercise advice needed

I been doing hanons for about good year and I'm cramping really bad doing them
I got book 1 my cp prevent me from doing all with out big cramp in the arm and mean big pain to. 

Yet my version of who says is more harder but i can play at ease also play Beethoven sonatas at ease.
Can hanons be harming my arms due my cp? 

I'm thinking of doing scales alone as warms ups, I get so frustrated when I can't do hanon due my cp.
That mentally I felt i can't play piano cause I couldn't get hanon down without cramping. 
And my teacher keeps pushing them on me. 

It can't be tech sense play for years and I can keep my fingers on keys at ease to. 
Plus Beethoven Mozart did fine without them so can't be that important. There just warm ups.

Any advice? 

Will scales help 4th 5th fingers? I can do all at ease 

Thank you Have Happy Thanksgiving!
Marcus

Of course you don't need to do hanon exercises but they can be nice for warmups.  If you are cramping you are doing too much at a time. 
I wouldn't push yourself too much with the hanons.  If you're cramping it means you're generating lactic acid at a rate that exceeds the rate you are able to get rid of it.  I'd back off the duration and intensity, take more breaks, and do less per day.  You have to find the right balance. 

A really great - fantastic - supplement you can take to revive the muscles is Wobenzym.  This is an enzyme based supplement.  Check it out.  You have to take it on an empty stomach and there is absolutely no side effects.  It is used for athletes, but is great for musicians too - taken before and or after practice depending on how hard you push yourself.

Any pain while playing is serious and can result in permanent injury. The first order of business is to STOP.  

I would suggest finding an instructor who is familiar with proper body mechanics.  There's no such thing as strenghthening the 4th and 5th fingers. It's physiologically impossible; but there are proper ways to use every finger, as well as arm rotation, shoulders and even your stomach muscles.  

Playing piano wel does require discipline, but it should also be a pleasure and pain-free.

Regards,
J

A link to your earlier thread on the same topic would be useful here:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2651086

  This is the second thread where I've seen it said that you cannot strengthen the pinky and that's rubbish. I started really focusing on building up my pinky a couple years a go and now I can do full bends with it. 

Anyway... Marcus, just take it slow and easy. It'll come. I'm not sure how you feel about this but taking a very small dose of a mild muscle relaxer might help a bit but DO NOT take them all the time. Just enough to keep things limber to get through this rough patch. Alternatively (and much safer) you can get some ibuprofin or other non narcotic anti inflammatory medication. Obviously talk to your doctor first.

Other stuff, and I think I mentioned this last time we talked, is keep some of those ice/heat gel packs around and before/after practicing apply a cold pack for 10 minutes then a heat pack for 10-15 minutes. Taking a hot bath or shower will help loosen things up as well.

Then there is massaging the tendons and muscles. I personally do this with my hands but you could get one of those hand held massager wand thingies (some of them even provide heat and infra red therapy) and keep it near the piano when practicing. When you start cramping up give your arms and wrists a little massage until the cramp eases up.

When you aren't practicing you can carry around one of those foam stress balls to keep thing limber or a set of those Chinese silver zen ball things that you twirl around in your hands.

You also need to get some proper hand stretches from a physiotherapist. I got a bunch from my old PT and they work wonders but they are very hard to describe in text form and if done improperly can do more harm than good so definitely ask your doc.

There are also herbal remedies for keeping inflammation down and building cartilage that you can get at the health food store.

Drink LOTS of water and avoid caffeine/alcohol.

I don't have CP but I do have a condition that causes many of the symptoms you describe. It is a constant battle trying to keep my hands moving properly (as well as the rest of my body). I have to warm up every time I pick up the guitar and constantly stretch/massage my arms during a session otherwise I'll wake up in the middle of the night with my arms burning unbearably. I feel for ya, man. It sucks having all sorts of music stuck in your head but having your body disobey when trying to get it out. With patience, persistence and trying out different solutions though these types of things can be managed. Unfortunately though sometimes we just have to deal with a bit of pain to get to where we want.

To all you folks out there with limber hands who don't have to worry about these types of things be thankful and don't take it for granted. Take care of your hands and your body in general because once you end up injured or illnesses of the extremities strikes it is not only physically painful it can be very mentally painful. My hands were turning into claws and I managed to bring them back to life with a lot of hard work but believe me... it sucks.

Cheers. 

Beepster  - I had bad issues from Guitar / Piano.  I even went to a performing arts doctor in Chicago and was on heavy duty Anti-Imflammatories (NSAIDs) for a while.  This really didn't do much for me and made things worse.  NSAIDs shut down the production of bad AND good prostaglandins - they provide temporary releif but no advancement of health.  And if you practice while taking them it can make things worse.  (also, it is estimated that 15,000 to 20,000 people per year die from the them in the U.S. due to issues with Kidneys - this was documented in a Wall Street Journal article)

Enzyme Therapy has no side effects and helps promote health.  When the East German Olympic team got busted in the early 70's for taking steroids, they researched an alternate way of helping muscles recover from stress and they discovered Eznymes.  Wobenzym is fantastic - I NEVER have problems with my hands any more from guitar and have advanced my guitar skills beyond what I ever thought possible.  The performing arts doctor I saw told me to stop doing difficult things on guitar and gave me NSAIDs that were bad.  I'm glad I stumbled onto Enzymes.  Sorry to be on a soap box but It helped me so much I try to share this with anyone needing help.  Doctors are oblivious to these types of things.

BTW, just to be clear, my comments pertain to the mechanics of playing the piano. I'm sure that the guitar has its own unique set of challenges. Unfortunately, there isn't 300 years of musical research and literature available for that intrument, so I would imagine that there are even more conflicting opinions as to what the best biomechanics are to play it without injury.

That's why I provided a bunch of other alternatives too. However some folks have issues so severe that they do need the drugs just to break the pain/inflammation enough to accomplish the task at hand. I refused to take medication for years and it ended up making my condition far worse. When the doctors found out they freaked because of the amount of unnecessary suffering I had put myself through and the muscle tension throughout my body caused more injuries. I still take far less than recommended and opt for other none medicinal solutions but without the pills I'd essentially be stuck in bed all day rotting away.

Yeah, Jobs total screwed that one up. He supposedly got sucked in by some alt medicine quacks and paid with his life. Very sad.

With the pinky it is about developing muscle independance and flexibility.  Except that there seems to be this intrinsic coupling with the ring finger.  If I try to divorce the pinky from the ring finger it seems to give me problems.
 
I do these hameron / pulloff exercises with all fingers independantly and all combinations of fingers.  The most awkward one is the combination of ring and pinky - alternating against each other.  I've gotten a lot better but it is definitely not like the other finger combinations.

I developed an entire series of exercises to unglue my fingers and maximize my reach and accuracy. It was a LOT of work but so worth it. Once up to spped it's about 15-20 minutes of straight up exercises, then a short break, then 20 minutes of scales and arpeggios. I spent almost two years doing that every couple of nights and it restored my speed/agility closer to when I was 18 (I was a crazy shredder back then) and solidified my knowledge/muscle memory to the point I don't really have to think much about where to go next while improvising. I have full control of the fretboard now whereas before I was limited to a few specific patterns and positions.

Thanks everyone. But in all honstley i did everything said above for years. I don't have problem with muscle memmory and I can sight read and play on time. I could play 32nd notes possible 64th and 128th.

The problem is in the forearm my cebral palsey effects it.
I'm spose to have splints with weights on the pressure points to help relax the muscle. But my doctor is idioit! 

If any one know how I can use Ace bange, apply weight, massage the pressure points or any other ideas I appreciate it.  Thanks

P.s while typing this my forearm is feeling tired due to cp.
and for anyone who don;t what cp dose it tightens my muscles so there never relax.  And streches don't work just makes them worse. thanks 

They told me same when I was baby also told me I'm going die. Yet I'm walking talking and living. But awesome about that guy. Thanks my parents tried keep me active I worked out 4 years did pushups,curls twice day. I can't run though cause got server asthma.

That understandable some people though made me feel bad myself tell me "well your not serious that I'm just looking for excuse not to practice". 
Which not true! I played over 4 years doing scales chords and playing tunes. I have perfect posture perfect wrist movement. I can play songs scales eyes closed. 

Well, Marcus... I'm certainly not one to say give up but as I've learned in my own life sometimes certain things just aren't possible. For example, I'll probably never be able to play drums like I used to and it would be foolish of me to try because there is a good chance I could seriously injure myself. Now I put together drum parts on my padKontrol and it works fine. Not as fun but it does the job. 

I've never heard of Hanons but to me it sounds like if you have tried everything you can to make it happen and it's still causing you pain you may just want to avoid that set of exercises. If you can play and create music you enjoy already I'd focus on that. Finding alternate solutions to achieve the end result you want is not giving up. That is part of living with a disability. The point is being creative enough and having enough strength/will to find those alternate solutions and not let your limitations get you down. Many times having to find those different paths is a gift in the sense your method is unique and the product is more original and creative than something that has been put together using the status quo.

If your teachers or peers are giving you a hard time and trying to force you or shame you into doing something that is causing you physical pain and injury you have to put your foot down and say NO. People want to be encouraging and buy into the notion that all obstacles can be overcome and as nice as that sentiment is sometimes it is counter to reality. Do what is right for you, not what others think is right for you.

Good luck.

Beepster, if it's not too crazy, would you be able to explain that set of exercises you mentioned?

Not sure I'd be able to last that long each day due to other pains, but I'm ready to get out of the old patterns, like you mentioned.