Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08]

Author
Tripecac
Max Output Level: -58 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1702
  • Joined: 2004/01/27 16:45:15
  • Location: New Zealand
  • Status: offline
2016/08/24 01:05:39 (permalink)

Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08]

I updated to 2016.08 today and notice a strange bug:
 
Whenever I change a note in the piano roll (say, from D to E), when the NOW time reaches it, I still hear the old note (D).  I have to rewind and play the section over again in order to hear the new note (E).
 
This doesn't appear to be related to the MIDI buffers (I use 250ms), because sometimes the NOW time hits the edited note multiple seconds after I make the edit.
 
This happened many, many times today, and I never had it happen before.  It's frustrating, because I have to keep listening to clips multiple times in order to hear changes.
 
Is anyone else experiencing the same problem?

tripecac.com
Sonar Platinum + Komplete 9
Win7 SP1 64bit, Intel i7 950 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM, M-Audio Delta44 (for Sonar), ASUS Xonar DX (for everything else), Nvidia GTX970, 2xSSD, 3xSATA


#1

9 Replies Related Threads

    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08] 2016/08/24 02:51:52 (permalink)
    Having MIDI FX plugins in the project will cause that, even if they're not on the track you're editing. This goes way back.

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #2
    Tripecac
    Max Output Level: -58 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1702
    • Joined: 2004/01/27 16:45:15
    • Location: New Zealand
    • Status: offline
    Re: Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08] 2016/08/24 15:59:53 (permalink)
    Ah, thanks!  This was the first time I've used a MIDI FX in a project (as an experiment).  I will promptly remove it! :)
     
    Has anyone reported this bug to Cakewalk?

    tripecac.com
    Sonar Platinum + Komplete 9
    Win7 SP1 64bit, Intel i7 950 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM, M-Audio Delta44 (for Sonar), ASUS Xonar DX (for everything else), Nvidia GTX970, 2xSSD, 3xSATA


    #3
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08] 2016/08/24 16:42:41 (permalink)
    I reported a related issue with MIDI buffering when looping with MFX that was a bigger problem for me, and that got fixed some time ago. I don't do much editing during playback, so I never reported this particular manifestation. I suspect it may be an inevitable side-effect of the extra buffering time needed to process MFX. 

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #4
    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08] 2016/08/24 20:58:25 (permalink)
    Maybe stopping and re-starting, whether by starting/stopping the transport or looping back, is required to "refresh" the processed MIDI data.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #5
    Tripecac
    Max Output Level: -58 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1702
    • Joined: 2004/01/27 16:45:15
    • Location: New Zealand
    • Status: offline
    Re: Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08] 2016/08/25 00:04:24 (permalink)
    Yeah, I'm guessing that yet again I'm running into issues because I do all my Piano Roll editing on-the-fly (during playback).  The Cakewalk developers and/or QA team don't seem to be doing very much on-the-fly editing during their testing, which is unfortunate for me (but perhaps not for the other 99% of Sonar users).
     
    Well, at least there is an easy workaround: never use MIDI FX.  I've gone 15 years without using them until this project, so I can definitely afford to ignore them for another decade or so more!  (Although gone are any of my plans to develop my own MIDI FX, which is something that was in the back of my mind...)
     
    Thanks for clarifying the issue!

    tripecac.com
    Sonar Platinum + Komplete 9
    Win7 SP1 64bit, Intel i7 950 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM, M-Audio Delta44 (for Sonar), ASUS Xonar DX (for everything else), Nvidia GTX970, 2xSSD, 3xSATA


    #6
    Roo Stercogburn
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 112
    • Joined: 2013/07/08 05:27:45
    • Status: offline
    Re: Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08] 2016/08/25 05:51:50 (permalink)
    Oh now that's interesting. I only edit on the fly very occasionally (usually drums). I was unaware that Midi FX are bugged in this way, cheers for the heads-up.
    #7
    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08] 2016/08/25 11:04:24 (permalink)
    Tripecac
    Yeah, I'm guessing that yet again I'm running into issues because I do all my Piano Roll editing on-the-fly (during playback).  The Cakewalk developers and/or QA team don't seem to be doing very much on-the-fly editing during their testing, which is unfortunate for me (but perhaps not for the other 99% of Sonar users).



    There was a time when you couldn't do any editing in MIDI sequencers during playback; you had to stop, edit, then restart. It was a huge deal when Steinberg announced a version of Cubase where you could do some editing while the engine was still running.
     
    This has improved over the years but there are still operations that will either stop the engine temporarily, or require a stop/restart. Whether it's possible to change the MIDI FX architecture in SONAR to get around this issue, I don't know. FWIW you don't have to stop and restart if the section is looped; the data will refresh on the next pass.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #8
    Tripecac
    Max Output Level: -58 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1702
    • Joined: 2004/01/27 16:45:15
    • Location: New Zealand
    • Status: offline
    Re: Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08] 2016/08/25 16:00:17 (permalink)
    I think I've always edited on-the-fly for as long as I used Sonar (and Pro Audio before that).  Of course, I might be mis-remembering.  Either way, I'm so used to edited during playback that I can't imagine enjoying the process of making music if I had to keep stopping playback each time I want to fix a bad note.
     
    Maybe I just make lots of bad notes! :)
     
    Out of curiosity, are there any DAWs which specialize in on-the-fly editing (ones designed that way from the ground up)?

    tripecac.com
    Sonar Platinum + Komplete 9
    Win7 SP1 64bit, Intel i7 950 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM, M-Audio Delta44 (for Sonar), ASUS Xonar DX (for everything else), Nvidia GTX970, 2xSSD, 3xSATA


    #9
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re: Piano roll edits ignored until second playthrough [2016.08] 2016/08/25 19:07:24 (permalink)
    Even normal MIDI buffering will cause a little of this, but it's usually not noticeable unless you're trying to make changes just a beat or two ahead of the Now time, which is difficult to do with any accuracy.
     
    If you're looping several bars, it shouldn't be a big deal, and you can always use the various timeline navigation methods to jump the Now time back without stopping the transport - Prev/Next Measure are my goto shortcuts (non-default keybindings) for this.
     
     
     
     

    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #10
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1