Piano student needs some 'soul'

Teach her the Blues or some Jazz (the real stuff, not Norah Jones) or even Latin music (Salsa, Latin Jazz).

That'll do it :-)

Janet,

Here's an anecdote that may be helpful.

When I was 20ish I was in the Fine Arts program at FSU... my teachers were preoccupied with talking about "art", "asthetic", "meaning", theme etc. etc.

I kept asking them to simply teach me how to paint. Which they refused to do... it was beneath them.

Now that I am middle age I firmly believe it is foolish to think that a youngster should be judged for a capacity to be emotional. I think it is totally appropriate to focus on development of skills. I wish I had the strength to argue that point of view when I was a student.

The student will, through their own personal growth, eventually display who they are and what they feel.

Some folks are virtuosic and never have deep emotions. That's just who they are.

Other folks develop deep sensitivity and if they have the skills... get to share the emotions with the world.

Anyways, I think you are correct to be concerned... but I don't think there is much to worry about.

At the same time I think it is necessity to supply the student with lots of great music to listen too. Let the music speak for itself.

best regards,
mike

Playing with soul entails playing against emotions.  I don't advocate anything as drastic as having her remember the time her puppy got run over, but have her relate to happy or gloomy events that have happened in her life.  It involves visulisation, so if she can mentally be at the place where she had a blast at her birthday party, then she can bring that out in her music.

I think I'll side with Mr. Mike....Mike?..., yeah, mike above.

Maybe she is a technician. Maybe her (subconscious)drive is to perfect the technical aspect of that keyboard until, after she has learned everything there is to know about the "how", she might endeavor into the "why". And then, maybe not.

Who knows, her tech side might reach much deeper, and once she understands this instrument she will "defeat" the string section, then the horns, etc.

So maybe the challenge is for the teacher, not the student. Can this teacher find and present more technically challenging pieces that will keep her interest up at the same high level?

One other thought, maybe an assignment to compose a short piece. Lay it out with a framework, a skeleton of some sort and have her "fill in the blanks". If nothing else, I bet it will be technically perfect....

Later
Albert

  A piano (basically speaking) is not an instrument that allows one to be emotive
or soulful. It can, but not as easily as say a guitar (in a comparative sense). It requires
a certain touch, strike of the key to "vary" the dynamics. In some ways (trying not
to be perfect) for lack of better words. I good student is a challenge to a teacher
and a good teacher knows how to monitor a students "level" and adjust the
challenges to the student "just enough" to keep them "trying" to achieve.

  All students have "something" different about them in there persona. As a teacher
one might "change a strategy" in order to (for lack of better words) "throw them off"
If they're lessons are easy or they constantly practice "something" it (can) become
a "repetition" like muscle memory. That in itself is good. On the downside it (can)
become robotic in a sense.

  Becoming a going through the motions thing. There are different types of composing
also. A person playing a "solo" is composing right on the spot. Also the "type" of
music being taught is a factor. Without a a student being matured as a player they
many times will "play" more sterile, but to be fair if a student is playing a piece that
is "typical" then typical it will sound under that circumstance, (all things considered)

  If (just using one example) the student isn't playing with "feel" give them a lesson
that requires them to play a tune that has the "feel" written in the lesson.
IE the melody. A typical piano sonata or something of that nature may not be
bluesy or emotive like something else might be.

  However getting "too far" off the beaten path of the typical lesson might
be too much too soon also so its a "little bit" at a "little time" thing. There
will always be "some" student who technically speaking can or may become
as good or even better than the teacher. In cases where the student is
technically very good at that then it's time to challenge them in other ways.

  If I'm correct in saying so a piano piece might use the left and right hand
as actually one unit to play a piece.

   in contrast using the left hand to "play chords" and the right hand to play
the melody in "like say a jazz tune" makes things two parts. The piano player is
now the "band" (left hand) and the "singer" the right hand (if that makes sense).

  If a student is playing "red river Vally" it's going to sound like "red river Vally"
but even "red river Vally" could be arranged in to an all out blues tune if
written and arranged so. 
  
  Maybe "feel" can't be taught but I would think teaching one how to be
"creative" can. And creativity I would think can become feel.
    

Thanks everyone! I appreciate all the ideas.  I'm not really worried about her, but have thought about it enough I wanted to hear your ideas.  I've had one other student like her recently, and it just took several months of talking to her about emotion in her playing and she began to get it.  I'm sure this gal will too.  I like the idea of having her compose something short.  I think once she gets more comfortable with chords and her own playing I'll do just that. 

I have another student quite a bit younger that's already composed (and performed) a few of her own pieces.  Obviously we're all put together differently and come at music from a different angle.  I just want to be able to help their weaknesses while helping them shine in their strengths.  Jose, you're idea of recording her is a great one too.

All great thoughts, guys.  Thanks!  :-)

Janet


"A piano (basically speaking) is not an instrument that allows one to be emotive
or soulful."

Sorry Jimmy.  I'll have to beg to differ with you on that one. 

I agree with Janet.  Good pianists do inject soul into their performance, so I don't agree with that either.
 
An example is the keyboard player in my band, he ALWAYS moves me with his playing.  The guy is super talented, I love him (no homo, of course :-P).

Janet


"A piano (basically speaking) is not an instrument that allows one to be emotive
or soulful."

Sorry Jimmy.  I'll have to beg to differ with you on that one. 

  To take "one" sentence, which in this case describes the skill that it takes to
be a good, great, emotive player of "any instrument" for that matter is to give
the instrument the "utmost respect", not to say that the instrument "Can Not"
be  emotive or soulful.

  For me to say that an instrument "is not" or does not allow anything is in
the stages of development of the person, in this case student.

  If for one example the child's hands are not fully grown and do not have
the finger length of an adult then things are different. there are many things
that factor in.

  I said:
   A piano (basically speaking) is not an instrument that allows one to be emotive
or soulful. It can, but not as easily as say a guitar (in a comparative sense). It requires
a certain touch, strike of the key to "vary" the dynamics. In some ways (trying not
to be perfect) for lack of better words

  I play the piano but my skill at it is far below what a good piano player does.

Jose, my son's like that, although he rarely plays. :(  I asked him to play a few minutes before my father-in-law's funeral (the 'real' pianist hadn't come yet.)  He almost moved me to tears from the first measure.  'Soul' (or whatever it is) just oozes from his fingers.  Unfortunately, she came before long, opened her books and played absolutely flawlessly and brilliantly.  But I'd rather listen to him for a million years.  One of these days I'm going to get him over here for a couple of hours and record him (when he's in the right mood) just so I can listen to him as much as I want.  Come to think of it, I didn't have to teach him that.  He just learned it.  So maybe I shouldn't have to worry about her.  Maybe you either have it or you don't.  OK, maybe that's what I'm worried about.  lol

Oh well, I'm rambling too.  I rarely have students that stick with it long enough for me to really take them anywhere.  I just want to do the best I can with her. 

Tim, yeah, I know...just wanted to chat about it.  :-)  She's just so perfect.  Man, if I would have practiced like she does...I might have gone somewhere! 

True Jimmy.  But let's compare apples with apples.  A good guitar player and a good piano player.  I think they can both make their instrument sing. :-) 

Right, Bob. :-)  I can't wait to hear her in a year or so. This girl's going places.  :-)

Herbie Hancock is doing some cool new stuff

Ah!  The emotive extravert vs virtuoso intravert. JMO!:
Personalities seem like the 4 elements: Fire, Earth, Water, Air
All are excellent but only one successfully dominates a song, IMHO.

Many virtuoso players try to fake genres that are soulish or spiritual ... and it helps stablish their exquisite graces, IMHO.  But virtuosos, IMHO, just don't have enough devils troubling their souls, so these innocents have very little soul-conviction when they play the piano.
 
Asian girls are notorious for their exquisite orchestral graces ... but many fail miserably with hip-hop emotives.

Likewise, many emotive singers try to fake virtuoso graces ... and that helps their grace-less groove loops blossom a bit.

Furthermore, children just don't have inner-demons and/or adult sins troubling their souls ... 13 y/o girls are just minors and maybe don't need my proud soulish pomp!
 
Girls, whose precious innocence dominates, must be protected by you, the teacher (or parents) ... to teach her piano songs that are not PG-14 or worse, etc. ... and not to be a stumblingblock to her innocence.
 
That said, I'd possibly get her away from grammatical sight reading a while ... and into playing her fav songs/hymns by ear ... with hands spread more widely on the piano ... during choruses ...
 
And of course, to sing loudly while she plays!

My take:
 
1.  You can not teach soul.  You either have it or you don't.
 
2.  At 13, almost no one has soul.  It takes time.
 
3.  The best way to "develop" soul is to have the student watch videos of great artists with soul do what they do.
 
4.  It's your duty to give the student the technique, it's up to the student to add the rest.
 
Take care,

I agree with what others are saying about teaching "soul" to a 13-year-old.

But how about basic musical expression, for example, the changes in tempo and dynamics in a well-played phrase. It's the thing that's the difference between a professionally played piano piece and a MIDI file that's entered by mouse.

I think learning basic expressive techniques needs to happen first.  Maybe "soul" will happen later.

Mitch I.

I'm not sure it's necessarily Soul as such, but the better players I know have a few things in common:

They play with great ease and confidence. I think this comes from having mastered their axe, and having a clear idea of what style they're trying to convey. They have exposure to a very wide variety of musical styles. They know what fits, and what doesn't. Their skills are such that they seem to play on reflex.

Their time is generally spot on. This not only applies to tempo, but execution of the interpretations demanded by each style (not necessarily what's "written"). (i.e. Drummers often put the snare behind the beat on rock ballads). Excitement comes without rushing the beat (how many club bands play their up-tunes at warp 10). Groove wins over technique (and sometimes intonation). (If you doubt that go back and listen to "shotgun" by Jr. Walker).

They have great ears, and great sensitivity to what is being played by other musicians. They can support the efforts of others without being a distraction. They can hear the interpretations being applied by others, and can reinforce it. They can recognize chords and scales by their "flavors". Most convey chords by their number (in the scale), not by name. Key signatures become irrelevant.

Dynamics are a powerful part of their performance. If your already on level 10, it's gonna be hard to accent anything. Rhythmic intensity is conveyed without more volume. This is often accomplished by the deliberate use of space.

Space is a fundamental. Knowing where to leave silences. How it amplifies the impact of what follows. A good band plays their note endings together, not just the attacks.

How you convey this to a student, I'm not sure. Perhaps listening to good examples and pointing it out. Once you have mastered the basics, the ears come first, then the chops.
 

All of you---GREAT ideas and thoughts!  I suppose the easiest would be to have her dye her hair red. Thank you once again, Mark!  :)

I like the idea of videos.  Great idea! 

Legion: you're right, unfortunately.
Rick: did you also have a hard time finding dates? 
feedback:  yes, being confident and knowing it well.  Very well said. 
Mitch: true.  It's the difference in just learning to play the notes correctly and adding dynamics, etc. 
Philip:  good point.  In this day and age, you can't be too careful. 
Everyone: I've enjoyed your input.  Thanks!  I'm really curious to see where she goes with all this.