Pirate tattletale?

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HammerHead
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 14:09:18 (permalink)



yo ho ho and a bottle of rum
#61
johngree
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 14:13:16 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Ogis

Well, if you think that they would prosocute (however you spell it) a paying customer, then okay. If you stole a car, exactly like the car you bought, you'd have two cars. Maybe one for your girl, and one for you. In fact that would be cute. BUT, this is different. You can use only one software at a time. You can however, get use of both cars at once. I SERIOUSLY doubt that if the poilce came to investigate me, and all I have is legit software, and this work around for the dongle, but then, I show them the dongle, where I bought it, that they are going to take any kind of action against me. I also doubt Stien would either. If they went after every person that uses dongle work arounds, then they would lose ALOT of business. I don't have anything on my computer that isn't legit, other than the dongle work around for cubase. It boils down to, I WILL NOT USE A DONGLE. And for a company to force people to use one is 150% stupidy. It pisses me off just thinking about that. "Hey, lets punish those who buy our stuff, while everyone else gets a better product, because they stole it".. THAT IS STUPID, however you slice it. But, alot of countries have laws that state, you can download it... if you already own it, but you cannot upload it to anyone,, so say it's wrong all you want, but if I bought it, I can do with it what I please, as long as I'm not sharing it, giving it away, or stealing the internal code to make my own software for money.



Just because you paid some money for the cracked copy doesn't mean you are innocent, even if you paid full retail price. Lets be honest here. You still conspired with the seller to do a transaction for an unauthorized copy of Cubase. Plus it was the Seller who was paid, not Steinberg.

For lack of a better analogy, it is like scalping tickets for a ML game or cocert. Would you scalp tickets in front of a police officer?
#62
corrupted
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 14:20:21 (permalink)


Would you scalp tickets in front of a police officer?
I would if I were the Minnesota Vikings' head coach...
#63
jamester
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 14:44:44 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: johngree


ORIGINAL: Ogis

Me = Bought Cubase.

Me = Don't, and will never use a dongle.

Was it cracked ? = Yep.

But did Stienberg get payed ? = Yes.




Not trying to judge you but Steinberg was not compensated for your copy. 2 Versions are being used by 2 different consumers but Steinberg was only compensated for one.


No, there isn't. This was my misunderstanding as well. Re-rerad the bottom half of the first page more carefully... ;-)

One version, one consumer, one dongle crack.

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#64
dontletmedrown
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 15:17:16 (permalink)
Everyone is getting waaaaaaaaay off topic. Like a previous poster stated, you have no proof of theft whatsover, so all of the accusations have no merit.

I do find it interesting that everyone justifies their software theft with excuses to make their conscience feel better. Geez, at least own up if you're going to do it. Instead of using the word "Legal", perhaps you should try changing it to "Ethical" and see if your behavior remains justified. Do what is right (ethically), not what the books tell you is right or wrong. It sucks that pirates don't think that they are stealing. Best of luck to ya...
#65
xackley
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 15:55:32 (permalink)
I thought we had killed this stupid thread

What about, I own Led Zeplin recordings, bought and paid for before some democrat invented the internet. Is it wrong for me to download a copy from the internet.

Van Gogh, seeing more that a vase of flowers.
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FretWizz
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 16:09:32 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: jamester
Sorry my friend, but only your conscience believes you're innocent.
According to the law, you have pirated software sitting on your computer -
you are a thief. Period.


It's not stealing.
It's copyright infringment.

Big difference.....
#67
Fullmoon
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 16:13:09 (permalink)
If nothing else this thread I think demonstrates the futility of Dongle copy protection.... as a working CPA I see clients with hacked version of MS Office and then request help with their excel files. The best you can do is to encourage others of the benefits (and ethics) of going legit. However I am convinced that some individuals would use hacked software even if the cost of purchasing the real thing were only a few dollars. I'm glad that Cakewalk offers quality products at a fair prices and so I want the company to succeed.

Fullmoon
#68
opaque slogan
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 16:18:51 (permalink)
Holy hip hop Batman, this thing just won't die!

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dontletmedrown
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 18:01:42 (permalink)
btw opaque,

that chick in your avatar is f'n hot!
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billruys
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 18:14:29 (permalink)
Deleted
post edited by billruys - 2006/11/09 19:32:12

Bill Ruys
Silicon Audio


#71
Ognis
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 18:21:36 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: johngree


ORIGINAL: Ogis

Me = Bought Cubase.

Me = Don't, and will never use a dongle.

Was it cracked ? = Yep.

But did Stienberg get payed ? = Yes.




Not trying to judge you but Steinberg was not compensated for your copy. 2 Versions are being used by 2 different consumers but Steinberg was only compensated for one.




Um, I don't have two copies. Read the whole thread.
#72
billruys
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 19:39:33 (permalink)
Other than that, whisteblowers aren't cool!

I am not saying that his choice to use crack software is right but I am saying it is none of your business.

Where do you draw the line? If someone witnessed a person stealing a $5000 microphone from your studio and told you about it, would you tell them that whistleblowers aren't cool and to mind their own business?

God forbid that we teach that kind of faulty morality to our children.

That hypothetical $5000 microphone pales into insignificance when you consider that, world-wide, $12,000,000,000 (microsoft's estimate) worth of software is pirated each year. The flow on is software companies going bust and people unemployed (estimated 118,000 jobs and $5.6 billion in wages in the USA alone). Yes, there are real victims of these crimes. In truth, the world is in dire need of whistle blowers.

I have on one occasion blown the whistle when I was solicited for serial numbers for two pro audio products. It wasn't an easy thing to do, it was very difficult. Was it the right thing to do? - I think it was. It is often much harder to do the right thing than nothing at all.
post edited by billruys - 2006/11/09 20:01:07

Bill Ruys
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#73
Ognis
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 20:19:49 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: johngree


ORIGINAL: Ogis

Well, if you think that they would prosocute (however you spell it) a paying customer, then okay. If you stole a car, exactly like the car you bought, you'd have two cars. Maybe one for your girl, and one for you. In fact that would be cute. BUT, this is different. You can use only one software at a time. You can however, get use of both cars at once. I SERIOUSLY doubt that if the poilce came to investigate me, and all I have is legit software, and this work around for the dongle, but then, I show them the dongle, where I bought it, that they are going to take any kind of action against me. I also doubt Stien would either. If they went after every person that uses dongle work arounds, then they would lose ALOT of business. I don't have anything on my computer that isn't legit, other than the dongle work around for cubase. It boils down to, I WILL NOT USE A DONGLE. And for a company to force people to use one is 150% stupidy. It pisses me off just thinking about that. "Hey, lets punish those who buy our stuff, while everyone else gets a better product, because they stole it".. THAT IS STUPID, however you slice it. But, alot of countries have laws that state, you can download it... if you already own it, but you cannot upload it to anyone,, so say it's wrong all you want, but if I bought it, I can do with it what I please, as long as I'm not sharing it, giving it away, or stealing the internal code to make my own software for money.



Just because you paid some money for the cracked copy doesn't mean you are innocent, even if you paid full retail price. Lets be honest here. You still conspired with the seller to do a transaction for an unauthorized copy of Cubase. Plus it was the Seller who was paid, not Steinberg.

For lack of a better analogy, it is like scalping tickets for a ML game or cocert. Would you scalp tickets in front of a police officer?



What are you talking about. I said I don't have two copies of the software, I have one - that was bought from stien. There is no second copy.
#74
Ognis
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 20:20:58 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: xackley

before some democrat invented the internet.



#75
TheFingers
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 21:50:41 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: jinga8

Problem is, its not a home studio, but a pro studio, and I was a guest who had asked to look at a pro setup. So telling the owner that he is a thief (which I am sure he must know) seems like a good way to blacklist myself and my friends from not only this particular studio, but those of any of his friends throughout the Boston area. UGH....
You're very close here....it's this, (you're own solution), or what Susan said.

1973 "A" neck.

I'd rather be playing Bass:
#76
holderofthehorns
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 23:09:01 (permalink)
Are you positive the software is stolen, or just "pretty sure"?
It's real easy to jump to conclusions when you do not know all the facts involved.

You need to either ask him how he got the dongle free version, or drop it.

If he tells you it's Warez, you can politely state your point of view without blacklisting yourself.
If it bothers you still, you can find another studio without causing a ruckus. Simply move on.
Life has a way of coming around. If he's guilty, he'll get caught all by himself.

If there are real reasons why his dongle free software is legit, you're going to feel like a fool for accusing without all the facts.

I have a friend with a studio that is tied into Yamaha pretty deeply.
Guess what? No dongle on his "Not For Resale" Cubase.
How did he do that? Non of my business. Connections I guess.
The man's character is impeccable in every other area.

You need to either ask him how he got the dongle free version, or drop it.

Eric Anderson
HolderOfTheHorns - It's a Viking thing.
#77
OldGeezer
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/09 23:57:11 (permalink)
I'd think twice before even bringing up with your other friends, coz if the guy is enough of a scumbag to run a pro studio with stolen software (and that's a big "if"...you could be wrong and he could own the apps and use cracks to bypass dongles, which I'd do myself without hesitation), then he could be enough of a scumbag to exact street-justice on you, your car or house etc...if he's heard from one of your friends that you're thinking about ratting him out (or worse, if someone else rats him out and he only has you as a lead). And it aint worth the hassle of reporting him when there's a billion more like him. Some of these people not only aren't ashamed of having stolen software, they're actually proud of it and will sometimes even brag about it. I'm not much concerned with the law, just my morals, and they coincide 99% of the time. If some knob is actually hurting/threatening/victimizing innocent people, I'd turn him in without thinking about it. But software piracy, sadly, is much like jay-walking in that so many people are doing it, and being a non-violent crime, it just isn't worth the potential hassles resulting from making a stand. I wouldn't respect him if it turned out you were right about him (IF), but I'd feel a tad uptight for actually reporting him. I'd just write him off as dirt and not deal with him. After all, if he has no problem stealing software, what makes you think he wouldn't steal an idea for a song from you, or one of your beats or riffs etc...I would have to be an idiot to just assume that someone who steals would naturally never steal from me.

And to the guy who wrote in huge caps "I HATE COPS..blah blah blah", it's almost ironic how most of 'em would lay their lives on the line to save your hide if they had to (even if they knew you hated them), how they'd hunt down the loser who killed one of your family members in a drunken hit & run for you, or how they'd call you if they found your some of your stolen property after you cried to them that your home/studio was ransacked when you were at work. If I were busted for having a joint of some dynamite skunk on me, I wouldn't be enough of a fool to proclaim my hatred for the cops who were just doing their jobs (it's the dinosaur law-makers and not the law-enforcers who are the problem). I'd still wish there were two of 'em on every street-corner. Sorry man, but this aint a gangster's hideout, and this forum is a incredibly inappropriate place to make such a vile statement. But I do believe in freedom of speech, so you technically have as much write to state you "hate cops" as I do to proclaim that I think cop-haters shouldn't be trusted, I suppose. Do you believe in freedom of speech too or would you like to kick my head in? We've had close family friends who were cops, and they had rock-solid characters. And I never heard them say they hated criminals either...you could tell they wished they could help them out of their ruts somehow. I'd trust those guys with my life even if I didn't know they were cops, and I find your ill-thought-out hate statements to be highly offensive, not that I expect you to care.

Anyways, unless I knew he'd murdered a store-clerk to get his warez (lol), I'd let it go. It's not so much a case of cowardice, but of practicality; If you're ever gonna stick your neck out in the name of justice, you'd best save it for someone who poses a more serious threat to your fellow man (muggers/rapists/drunk-drivers/child exploiters/racist hate-mongers/terrorists etc...
#78
jamester
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/10 00:29:06 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: FretWizz

ORIGINAL: jamester
Sorry my friend, but only your conscience believes you're innocent.
According to the law, you have pirated software sitting on your computer -
you are a thief. Period.


It's not stealing.
It's copyright infringment.

Big difference.....

If you are caught in posession of stolen goods, that's stealing.

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#79
californiamusic
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/10 00:34:50 (permalink)
Oh jesus, is this really a thread?? Hey Geekboy, mind your own business and get a girlfriend.. uh you TOO JAMESTER, I mean COME ON!
#80
vintagevibe
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/10 00:35:15 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: jamester

If you buy a car, and then steal the same make and model, yeah the company got paid, but you still have two cars, one of which is stolen. You still have two copies of the software, and one of them is stolen.


There is a huge difference here. If you steal a car you have cost someone thousands of dollars. I you use a copy of the software you bought (for you're own archival purposes) you have cost no one anything.
post edited by vintagevibe - 2006/11/10 00:52:22
#81
jamester
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/10 01:49:03 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: vintagevibe

ORIGINAL: jamester

If you buy a car, and then steal the same make and model, yeah the company got paid, but you still have two cars, one of which is stolen. You still have two copies of the software, and one of them is stolen.


There is a huge difference here. If you steal a car you have cost someone thousands of dollars. I you use a copy of the software you bought (for you're own archival purposes) you have cost no one anything.

You are wrong.

It only seems like nothing, because we consider software intangible. But the reality is that software costs a lot to make, in both dollars and manhours. It is the selling of that software for profit that keeps a company alive. If you only bought one copy of the software and then downloaded a crack of the same software, you have still cost that company a sale. Yeah, in real-world applications it's still "more in theory" than the car scenario because it's software, but in principle it is exactly the same. If it weren't there would be no dongles or copy-protection schemes in software. If it wasn't stealing that actually cost the companies money, then why would they care at all? Think about it. (Economically, that's a whole dfferent discussion. Again, I am speaking on principle here.)

Now if you're talking about just making a copy of the software you bought, then yes that's different. But that was not the point of the discussion that quote is from. I firmly believe we should have the right to make an archival copy of anything we legitimately purchase, just like a music cd. The end result may seem like the same, but on principle it is not.

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#82
DayDrumFour
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/10 01:49:40 (permalink)
Sorry Geokauf if this sounds sarcastic, but......

What exactly is “playing around with the DAW...
You don't know that?

We all know DAW host software is not like a PC game. You don’t “play” DAW software.
You click a "play" button, you "play" an instrument into it.

Often it takes days or weeks to get one’s head around a DAW host.
Sounds like a horribly complicated interface.

What size sampling of studios do you need to be sure that a practice is “common.”
Enough to spot some stolen sh..

Law enforcement is reactive. The law doesn’t apply until you get caught.
So it wasn't a crime because they didn't get caught. Interesting logic......

Violating a software EULA is not a criminal act. The police are primarily concerned with violent crime.
But the size of the lawsuit for a profiting business?

If you are concerned with making the world a better place start with yourself and don’t be concerned with what others are doing.
Dude seriously, the guy posted a thread.

Don't mean to sound rude, but if Jinga8 wanted to vent, so be it. A missing dongle can set the mind going about the place and it's owner. We all know studios in various budgets, you wonder about the legal issues especially on the lower end.
This reminds me of an exchange I heard in a studio recently...

a.) "Yo, you paying taxes on the money I gave you right?"
b.) "man shut up"
a.) "I had to pay taxes on the money I make right?"
b.) "Yo shut him up"
a.) "I tell the gov'ment" "Let me see your W-2"
b.) "Punk a-- m----- f-----"

I have authentic analog drum machine samples.
#83
jamester
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/10 01:50:47 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: californiamusic

Oh jesus, is this really a thread?? Hey Geekboy, mind your own business and get a girlfriend.. uh you TOO JAMESTER, I mean COME ON!

I will do as I please, thank you.

I suggest you keep your name-calling to yourself, and make a point not to post in threads with which you have nothing productive to contribute.

Purrrfect Audio DAW built by Jim Roseberry
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#84
AndyW
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/10 02:22:32 (permalink)
People clearly pointing out the immorality of software pirating giving you a guilty conscience? One wonders...

Best,

AndyW

OBJECTS IN MIRROR ARE CLOSER THAN THEY APPEAR

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#85
SleepTyght
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/10 06:53:06 (permalink)
I could really give a damn about what's in the next man's studio....as far as pirating is concerned.


Now if he's got a couple of cool modules....perhaps a Korg Oasys....and he's talented enough to show his gear isn't just sitting there as studio ornaments then......yes I'd give a damn.


Sometimes I read these pirating threads, and everyone gets soooo worked up over this issue without realizing that there is a positive in every negative situation and vice versa. For every job promotion, there is yet another worker who didn't get it.....and for every firing, there's a new employee who has the opportunity to pay for rent and groceries. Get it?


If it weren't for pirating I would never have purchased Spectrasonics Trilogy. I know Mr. Persing visits these forums. If he needs to know if I'm registered for Trilogy then please....PM me, ask me for my name(or serial) and look up my account. Anyway when I first heard of Trilogy I couldn't see the point in paying $300 for a Vsti with only bass sounds included. Yeah...pretty blind of me right? Anywho, I downloaded the software about 2 years ago....tried it out...and loved it enough to purchase the software....DESPITE SPECTRASONICS NEVER RELEASING A DEMO....AND FOR MYSELF NOT BEING ABLE TO FIND A DEMO IN A NEARBY SAM ASH/GUITAR CENTER. Spectrasonics releases quality product, and even I shake my head at people who continue to use cracked copies without paying for it.


Same thing happened with Ableton Live. Sure there may have been a demo, but I wanted to try it out without any limitation...yadda yadda...let's just say I was lazy as hell and a bit greedy. Hey, I'm now a registered Ableton user and that's that.



Point blank...you are STEALING when you download software. F$%k whhatever the forum gestapos have to say about you. Just admit to what you've done, and talk to Jesus about it. I'm not really trying to justify what I've done, but I think it is worth mentioning that I would have never paid a dime for Live or Triolgy if not for bittorents or P2P services. Hell practically everyone I know who downloads software NEVER EVER uses it anyway. The funny thing is they all end up only using exactly what they've paid for....and usually it's hardware. Funny isn't it?


By the way....I wish I would have downloaded Cubase SX 2 in the past. Perhaps it wouldn't have been so hard to make the transiition back to Sonar....with license transfers and all. I'll never go the dongle route again. Sheeeeeeeeeeet.........
#86
bermuda
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/10 08:43:08 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: billruys

Other than that, whisteblowers aren't cool!

I am not saying that his choice to use crack software is right but I am saying it is none of your business.

Where do you draw the line?


YOu draw the line on paper, otherwise your crayons are going ontop of the fridge !

There will always be people who steal and people who will not. when legitimate purchasers of software sniff someone who is blatently parading around their steal, it is inevitable that there will be some backlash.

Personally I believe if you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it, work harder, make money and earn it! This is an expensive journey...cheap at the start is more likely to equal frustration and person quiting. There are demos available to try stuff out...so no need to use an illegal version. The whole purchased software with dongle legally, but used a cracked version to get around problems with dongle causing crashes is only legal if the company permits this behaviour. But you all know that right ?
post edited by bermuda - 2006/11/10 15:01:04

 Yes.
#87
chaz
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RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/10 09:55:33 (permalink)
Having read through the entire thread, let me offer this word of caution.....

In your initial post, it seems as though you are assuming that the studio owner is somehow using sofware that needs a dongle, but is not. At least, not one that you can see in plain sight.

It has been suggested that the owner may have a dongle, but it's location may be out of plain sight. I can tell you that my iLok key is out of sight. Yet, if you watched me using software that you think should have a dongle (or does) (i.e., Waves Diamond bundle, IR1, Bomb Factory, et al) but did not see one in plain sight, would you think the same thing regarding me and my studio?

As a studio owner, I take slanderous comments against myself and/or my company very seriously. So, please be very careful what you say to others when you have not taken the time to find out the facts. The last thing you need or want on your hands is a slander suit in court.

IOW.... If you are not sure about something and it bothers you, ask. You might just find that your assumptions are wrong. Then again, they may be right. But the only way to really know is to ask.
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