Pirate tattletale?

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jinga8
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2006/11/08 01:08:16 (permalink)

Pirate tattletale?

I recently visited a local studio (small but very well organized/layed out). I was impressed and asked if I could play around with the DAW (they have Sonar, Cubase and Samplitude). I had been pointed to this studio by the owner's cousin, so he said sure (although he seemed to become welded to the space directly above my left shoulder). Anyway, while exploring his system and the tools he had available, I noticed lots of stuff (Waves diamond, Antares stuff, Cubase SX3) that needed a dongle or some type of USB key. However, there was none, and I didn't ask (I was a guest being allowed to look at his goodies, after all). I didn't dare ask to see his Sonar DVD case or raise any questions, and I have my own home studio so I don't need to use his services, but what about all the clients that DO use this studio. Should I just suck it up and not say anything? My main problem is that I have friends in 3 different bands that use this studio. It seems like he has the money (you can't download mics, keyboards, control surfaces, and accoustical treatment!) to pay for software, but doesn't. I guess it's none of my business except perhaps to tell my friends that use him. Any suggestions appreciated...Thanks
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    CJaysMusic
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 01:48:56 (permalink)
    If you visited my home studio and you pointed out some stuff that needed a dongle or something and would improve my programs ect. I would want your feedback and thank you for it

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
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    NYSR
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 01:52:58 (permalink)
    It is common for some studios to purchase legitimate software but to run cracked versions in order to simplify the intrusiveness that can become a real problem when two or more dongles don't get along with each other.

    In other words it might be hard to know what's going on or they might be full fledged pirates.



    Cakewalk customer since Apprentice version 1, PreSonus 16.4.2 ai, 3.5 gHz i7

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    jinga8
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 01:53:37 (permalink)
    Problem is, its not a home studio, but a pro studio, and I was a guest who had asked to look at a pro setup. So telling the owner that he is a thief (which I am sure he must know) seems like a good way to blacklist myself and my friends from not only this particular studio, but those of any of his friends throughout the Boston area. UGH....
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    inmazevo
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 01:55:52 (permalink)
    Many people I know with dongled software put it internal... they don't get broken or stolen that way...
    This is particularly common in academic situations.

    Is this a possibility?

    - zevo
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    CJaysMusic
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 01:56:28 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: CJaysMusic

    If you visited my home studio and you pointed out some stuff that needed a dongle or something and would improve my programs ect. I would want your feedback and thank you for it


    Also if you noticed i had some pirated software, wich i dont, you should keep it to yourself unless you or your friends, who are spending hard earned cash are directky affected by it..
    At some point and time, i think everyone has had some form of illegal or pirated software..... Thats all i got to say about that..

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    CJaysMusic
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 02:00:36 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: jinga8

    Problem is, its not a home studio, but a pro studio, and I was a guest who had asked to look at a pro setup. So telling the owner that he is a thief (which I am sure he must know) seems like a good way to blacklist myself and my friends from not only this particular studio, but those of any of his friends throughout the Boston area. UGH....


    But maybee its worth being blacklisted from a studio who does shortcuts to save money...
    What else do they do to save a buck. i would look for another studiowho has more ethics.
    you need to be comfortable at a place whare your puting out your blood and sweat , and this would always be in the back of your head while laying down tracks

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
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    jinga8
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 02:03:14 (permalink)
    Many people I know with dongled software put it internal... they don't get broken or stolen that way...
    This is particularly common in academic situations.

    I suppose that this is a possibility. How would that be done? I mean, are you saying they have a dongle inside the computer on some internal USB port on the motherboard or physically located on a PCI (or other) card (which I have never heard of) or is there a way to transfer all the liscencing info internally? I always thought the point of dongles and such was to be able to use liscences on multiple systems when needed.
    #8
    Susan G
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 02:09:24 (permalink)
    Hi Gregory-

    You have to live with yourself, and this obviously bothers you, so why not just ask him directly what's up?

    -Susan

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    #9
    conflicting
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 02:17:48 (permalink)
    get over it and forget it, unless you are going to talk to him about it. Maybe there is something you dont know. Talk to the source, not everyone else first, grow some balls and speak what is on your mind. I think you are wierd for even letting this bother you to the point where you are posting a thread about it. Personally I would say mind your own business. For all you know he might pay for alot more than you think, and you are going to run around like a hater and talk crap about somebodys studio based on assumptions and feeling that you have (reminds me of my ****). If anything you can be wrong and this dude is going to think that you are talking **** because you are jelous that his mics are better than yours. lol
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    Ognis
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 02:21:37 (permalink)
    Me = Bought Cubase.

    Me = Don't, and will never use a dongle.

    Was it cracked ? = Yep.

    But did Stienberg get payed ? = Yes.

    So, do I equal a theif ?


    Nope
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    jamester
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 02:54:23 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Ogis

    Me = Bought Cubase.

    Me = Don't, and will never use a dongle.

    Was it cracked ? = Yep.

    But did Stienberg get payed ? = Yes.

    So, do I equal a theif ?


    Nope

    Sorry my friend, but only your conscience believes you're innocent. According to the law, you have pirated software sitting on your computer - you are a thief. Period.

    I'm not saying I approve or disapprove, cuz I don't care either way (and I know this is a common practice). But if you get caught with stolen goods, you're a thief in the eyes of the law. And frankly, that's the way it should be - one doesn't cancel the other out. If you buy a car, and then steal the same make and model, yeah the company got paid, but you still have two cars, one of which is stolen. You still have two copies of the software, and one of them is stolen.

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    Ognis
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 03:08:44 (permalink)
    Well, if you think that they would prosocute (however you spell it) a paying customer, then okay. If you stole a car, exactly like the car you bought, you'd have two cars. Maybe one for your girl, and one for you. In fact that would be cute. BUT, this is different. You can use only one software at a time. You can however, get use of both cars at once. I SERIOUSLY doubt that if the poilce came to investigate me, and all I have is legit software, and this work around for the dongle, but then, I show them the dongle, where I bought it, that they are going to take any kind of action against me. I also doubt Stien would either. If they went after every person that uses dongle work arounds, then they would lose ALOT of business. I don't have anything on my computer that isn't legit, other than the dongle work around for cubase. It boils down to, I WILL NOT USE A DONGLE. And for a company to force people to use one is 150% stupidy. It pisses me off just thinking about that. "Hey, lets punish those who buy our stuff, while everyone else gets a better product, because they stole it".. THAT IS STUPID, however you slice it. But, alot of countries have laws that state, you can download it... if you already own it, but you cannot upload it to anyone,, so say it's wrong all you want, but if I bought it, I can do with it what I please, as long as I'm not sharing it, giving it away, or stealing the internal code to make my own software for money.
    post edited by Ogis - 2006/11/08 03:27:17
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    Ognis
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 03:21:27 (permalink)
    I take that back...

    Think of it this way, in your steal a car reference.

    I buy a car.. I pay it off.. The speed limitor is set to 50 MPH. A friend, or for sake of argument, just some guy off the street says, I had the same car, and took my limitor off myself, I'll take yours off for free. I say, sure! go for it man! He takes off the limitor, and now, finally I can drive on the interstate. Yes, I am using the car in a way the manafactur didnt intend, but I bought the car. It is mine. If I want to change something on it, that is my right as the owner to do with it as I please.
    #14
    jamester
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 03:29:30 (permalink)
    Nope, sorry. I am speaking about THE LAW, because you are saying in your software scenario that you are not a thief, even though you have pirated software on your computer. It's not about rationalizing whether or not Steiny would be upset about it, or whether the cops would really care, etc... It's about the fact that you have pirated software installed on your computer - period. That's illegal.

    Your second car scenario doesn't work at all; that would be akin to buying the software then hacking into it and modifying it. That might be illegal too, I don't know...it would certainly void any support/upgrade possibilities. But in your car scenario you only have one car, which you have paid for. In your software scenario, you have TWO copies of the software, and one of them you did not pay for.

    I'm merely speaking in legalities here. If your conscience is clear, then it's all good. I am in no way judging anything...merely clarifying the law. =)
    post edited by jamester - 2006/11/08 03:46:49

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    Ognis
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 03:30:15 (permalink)
    Wait!,,, okay, okay, I got it now, you think I ment I had the enite program, cracked and installed, and my bought program not installed ? Or something like that ? Sorry, I think we got crossed somewhere. I didn't mean I have an enite cracked cubase. I ment I have something that allows you to not have to use the dongle. It's an indapendant work around for the program, it is NOT the program itself. Sorry, I was wondering what you were talking about.
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    jamester
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 03:32:53 (permalink)
    Ahhh...gotcha! Now that's interesting; I'm curious how that's looked upon, technically. I suppose that if they found out, they could void your warranty, but other than that...I don't think they could bring a legal case against you. But I'm not a lawyer, so I dunno...

    (your secret's safe with me)

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    Frank Haas
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 03:48:38 (permalink)
    funny, I wanted to post the same comparison and though "keep it to myself"..
    now besides my personal opinion.. I think I have read that you only purchase a license of the software.. so actually it's not really yours..
    but anyway, why is every loyal legal sonar/software owner keen on being a 100% correct, when most people dont give a ....

    to come back to the original topic, I dont care what other people do, it's not my business.. there's always the possibility that "these" people get on the right track after a "testing" period of time.
    There are always 2 sides to a story, so if the music/movie-industry f.e. complains about millions and billions of loss by piracy.. there is still more then enough money left to pay the actors and singers.. they get through the month.. even if they might have earned two or three millions more that month..
    But if you, as a "normal" person, download a 3minute song.. you get major problems with the law.. somehow its ridiculous..
    I used to stay in front of my radio and tapedeck for hours and record my favorite songs (ok, thats been 20years ago), but I still have these tapes.. now should I burn them 'cause I dont have the original CD and I am not allowed to have a private copy of my CDs ?
    I am afraid how this all will be in 10years from now..
    Starting next year I have to pay a monthly fee for my pc, because "they" assume I can watch TV on it, or could hear radio over it.. "they" dont care if you really do use your pc as a "DAW" or game-pc, or for work.. ridiculous ! I could hear radio with my mesa boogie studio preamp.. am I doing anything illegal ? should I register that device as a radio, just to be 100% correct ?
    I am about 95% correct.. that's fine for me..
    #18
    HansDampf
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 05:37:11 (permalink)
    @Frank:
    So you actually DO pay GEZ?
    Well, I don`t like to pay that new fee either, but if it helps to keep stations like ARTE or 3sat alive, than I bite the bitter apple.... in fact I would like to see ARD/ZDF completely independent from advertising-income, because if they don`t have to compete with the private stations in terms of audience ratings. The last thing I want is to pay a state-fee for a TV station that is the same as the private stations...... ok, ok, off-topic, I know....
    post edited by HansDampf - 2006/11/08 05:54:29
    #19
    artsoul
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 06:47:28 (permalink)
    when i used cubase I had the legit copy but used the crack, the dongle cuased me endless problems

    I have no issue with that at all


    part of the reason i switched to sonar was NO DONGLE
    #20
    opaque slogan
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 07:54:24 (permalink)
    Hi jinga8,
    If i were you i'd try to forget about this and certainly not confront this guy.
    If he's as dodgy as the evidence suggests then, do you want to mess with him?
    You never really know what people are capable of.

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    #21
    R!Soc
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 08:04:50 (permalink)
    Just ask him "Hey, my version of XXX needs a dongle. Where did you get the dongle free version? I'd love to buy that version instead!"

    Then go from there.
    #22
    mr. moon
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 08:23:25 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: jinga8

    Many people I know with dongled software put it internal... they don't get broken or stolen that way...
    This is particularly common in academic situations.

    I suppose that this is a possibility. How would that be done? I mean, are you saying they have a dongle inside the computer on some internal USB port on the motherboard or physically located on a PCI (or other) card (which I have never heard of) or is there a way to transfer all the liscencing info internally? I always thought the point of dongles and such was to be able to use liscences on multiple systems when needed.


    Fairly easily. If you have a serial dongle(s) you can either get a 1 foot serial cable extension cable and just reroute it into the case, or if you have a USB/Firewire dongle(s) you can just get on of the front-mounted USB/FW kits that have a PCI card to connect to the mainboard, install the PCI as normal and then place the front panel within the case (with the dongles connected). ...Don't forget that you have to lock the case with a padlock so that it cannot be opened (Dells have these lock-tabs included on their Optiplex system cases) and then lock the case to the table.

    I have to do this at work as I manage a number of computers with applications that are so expensive per workstation, that the dongle alone costs ~$6000.00!!!

    ...and yes, dongles suck!!

    -mr moon


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    #23
    tonester
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 08:42:34 (permalink)
    yes, dongles suck, but why do you think they exist? because of stealing, of course.


    pirating software is stealing, no matter how you try and justify it.



    Tony
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    Antler
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 09:12:59 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: jamester

    ORIGINAL: Ogis

    Me = Bought Cubase.

    Me = Don't, and will never use a dongle.

    Was it cracked ? = Yep.

    But did Stienberg get payed ? = Yes.

    So, do I equal a theif ?


    Nope

    Sorry my friend, but only your conscience believes you're innocent. According to the law, you have pirated software sitting on your computer - you are a thief. Period.

    Actually I think that depends on how the license is worded. When you buy software, you don't actually buy the software (like you do with tangible goods); you buy a license to use the software. The fact that you're given a CD doesn't mean that what's on it is yours - you're simply given a 'right' to use the software and given a copy of it. If you buy a copy and use a cracked copy, you're still abiding by the license (again depending on how it's worded) by using 1 copy of the software on 1 computer.

    What would also make you pirate is if you use more copies of the program than you have licenses for; for example if you buy a standard copy of Sonar and install and use it on 2 computers at the same time. It's quite funny how that often gets overlooked in software piracy discussions.
    post edited by Antler - 2006/11/08 09:30:31
    #25
    inmazevo
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 12:09:47 (permalink)
    http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?quicklinx=3V67&CategorySelectedId=11021&InMerch=1
    http://www.syba.com/product/43/01/index.html
    http://www.computergate.com/products/item.cfm?prodcd=AUSAU5

    It's a somewhat common solution... not incredibly advertised, but it works.
    When I was on the Cubase forum, I new several people that used this technique for many reasons, from kids pulling them out, to students stealing them from labs, to customers stealing them, as well as to protect them from being broken.

    I also new of several others who would string a usb cable into an external box, for the same reasons as above.

    I'm not saying that's the case, because of course I don't know.
    Perhaps he's using a crack... perhaps he's not.

    It's just quite odd to see otherwise legit business owners, who've spent far more money than software costs on other things, to skimp in this area and run the risk of getting into trouble.

    It's entirely possible, and I'm sure it happens, but not seeing a dongle alone is not proof.

    If you're truly worried, you could ask what they do to protect their dongles (giving them an "out")... but if you're worried about the answer, you can use someone else.

    It is, unfortunately, not within your power to do much about.

    While I personally won't use a crack, even for something I have a license for that otherwise is unusable, many others feel differently.
    I'm just VERY quick to ditch an app that has problems for an app that doesn't... it doesn't matter to me what the problem is... dongles, dodgy midi timings, system hangs, incompatibility with my system... whatever.
    I just want to make music, and in my experience I can do that with a variety of tools.

    Take care,
    - zevo
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    Geokauf
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 12:18:54 (permalink)
    Hello,

    Well here we go again. Deep pangs of conscience. What exactly is “playing around with the DAW…” We all know DAW host software is not like a PC game. You don’t “play” DAW software. Often it takes days or weeks to get one’s head around a DAW host. Besides, we’ve all seen the different brands at one time or another. Did you crawl behind the workstation to see if the dongles were there? With Synchrosoft USB dongles you can put all the licenses on a single dongle and, as others have said, put that single dongle on an internal USB connection (inside the box). (I have six such available USB ports on my motherboard). So what was your true motivation for wanting to “play” on this system? Was it that you wanted to “catch” somebody doing “something”?

    In response to other statements in this thread:

    - I don’t know that it is common for “some studios to purchase legitimate software but to run cracked versions in order to simplify the intrusiveness that can become a real problem when two or more dongles don't get along with each other.” What size sampling of studios do you need to be sure that a practice is “common.”

    - “Sorry my friend, but only your conscience believes you're innocent. According to the law, you have pirated software sitting on your computer - you are a thief. Period.” Law enforcement is reactive. The law doesn’t apply until you get caught.

    - “I SERIOUSLY doubt that if the poilce came to investigate me, and all I have is legit software, and this work around for the dongle,…” Violating a software EULA is not a criminal act. The police are primarily concerned with violent crime. When are the police going to find the time to make a house-to-house search for unauthorized software?

    - “There are always 2 sides to a story, so if the music/movie-industry f.e. complains about millions and billions of loss by piracy.. there is still more then enough money left to pay the actors and singers.. they get through the month.. even if they might have earned two or three millions more that month..
    But if you, as a "normal" person, download a 3minute song.. you get major problems with the law.. somehow its ridiculous…” There is no “needs basis” criteria when it comes to crime. “He had plenty and he doesn’t need it all, so I was entitled to take some for myself.” See if that will get you a lesser sentence. LOL. BTW, this isn’t “two sides to a story,” it’s one side – yours.

    - “when i used cubase I had the legit copy but used the crack, the dongle cuased me endless problems…” I can’t imagine that the dongle crack for Cubase works better than the actual dongle. I tried the dongle crack for SX1.06 (only because I didn’t believe the dongle could be cracked) and the answer was that the dongle was not completely cracked. Thousands of Cubase users (and other software users for that matter), including myself use donglized versions daily with nary a problem.

    If you are concerned with making the world a better place start with yourself and don’t be concerned with what others are doing. You can’t control others behavior and it’s not your job to police others. Mind your own business and carry on.

    Regards,
    George

    #27
    Stringrazor1
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 12:34:30 (permalink)
    Do you ask for receipts for everything you see in use at a business or friend's home? I could understand your objection if the guy offered you a "good deal" on a copy or was selling copies out the back door or on ebay. If it bothers you enough ask him directly or take your business elswhere otherwise, get over it.
    #28
    Frank Haas
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 12:48:35 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Geokauf

    “There are always 2 sides to a story, so if the music/movie-industry f.e. complains about millions and billions of loss by piracy.. there is still more then enough money left to pay the actors and singers.. they get through the month.. even if they might have earned two or three millions more that month..
    But if you, as a "normal" person, download a 3minute song.. you get major problems with the law.. somehow its ridiculous…” There is no “needs basis” criteria when it comes to crime. “He had plenty and he doesn’t need it all, so I was entitled to take some for myself.” See if that will get you a lesser sentence. LOL. BTW, this isn’t “two sides to a story,” it’s one side – yours.

    Yes, you are right.. and I dont deny it.. its my side of the story. The law doesnt make exceptions.. it's just a strange situation when you compare the "crime" with the actual "victim"... some people dont seem to get their mouthes full.. I dont justify using warez with that argument.. I dont have to.. I am kind of proud having all original software.. but please.. there is still enough for the industry, the artist,...
    and if I follow the Paul McCartney story in the media.. hey, Paul for the sake of the Beatles.. give her the 50,100,150 million dollars and 20millions for your lawyers.. whatever.. you wont have the time to spend whats left anyway..
    Getting really offtopic now, I think the industry has to relax a bit more, while the customers have to take a bit more responsibility..
    @Hansdampf.. I work at a private local tvstation, so I kind of have my own relationship to the gez, I even worked for the gez as a callcenter-employe some years ago.. so I know some of their tricks..
    And now dont laugh.. because I watch tv 8 hours daily as a profession.. do you really think when I come home that I'll turn on my television ? no.. I dont even have one at home, cause when I zap through the programs and see a fault on our channel.. I have so much responsibility to immediatly drive to work.. I dont do that anymore.. to many relationsships have broken up for that reason.
    But I do have an old "braun" radio.. with these old "midi" connectors (5pin).. I dont even know if it works anymore.. its more a childhood thing.. brings me back in time.. it's just standing here having an inch of dust on it.. And the law says: you have to pay for it! every month ! come on.. peace..
    #29
    sandman5000
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    RE: Pirate tattletale? 2006/11/08 12:49:06 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Geokauf


    If you are concerned with making the world a better place start with yourself and don’t be concerned with what others are doing. You can’t control others behavior and it’s not your job to police others.

    Regards,
    George





    Words to live by.
    #30
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