Placing an instrument behind the listener - How?

Theoretically of course... if a mix has an instrument in front of you sonically speaking.... it would seem logical that if you simply turned the head phones around..... right can to left ear... or swapped the speakers in the same manner...the instrument would then "theoretically" now be behind you....sonically speaking.

 

I'm not sure the effect on "Rio" was intentional, since there was no way in 1982 to "guarantee" listeners would hear an effect like this--especially on cassettes with their limited frequency response. It might just be something you're hearing now (on CD, I assume) because of a phasing anomaly or something that happened when it was remastered. The first CD I remember hearing that tried to create a 3-D space from 2 speakers was Sting's "The Soul Cages". The whole thing was an interesting "diversion" in mixing and mastering in the late 80's/early 90's, but not everyone heard the effect, and the fad didn't last long.

This sounds like a cool project, and as you suggest, it's a great way to learn how others do things. (I did something similar with a-ha's "Take on Me", years ago.) I think you'll need to play with reverb, panning and EQ to get the effect. You're dealing with psychoacoustics and how we perceive sound here--and everyone perceives it slightly differently. For example, what you hear as the guitar "behind your head" may appear to others as "in front". The head absorbs higher frequencies more than lower ones, and between that difference and the amount of "room ambience" in the sound once it reaches the ear, the brain can determine if the sound originated in front of you or behind you.

You might have your best luck if you try to make the guitar "move" from left to right "behind the head". If it's static and doesn't move, the listener won't have any real reference point.

Good luck with it, and if you get it to work, I'd like to hear it to see if it sounds the same to me (if you don't mind)!

Steve

+1 Gambler

Pre-delay, room length, and reverb type are 1st thoughts.

As far as precise imitating/replicating ... that is relatively easy with art-paintings (for me) ... but extremely difficult for me in the complex musical world.

The most difficult emulation (for me) may be their complex groove techniques ... the lifeblood of their songs ... though it gets easier with psychedelia genres and before.

I read a v ery interesting article on this a few years ago about the doppler effect and other spatially related hearing differences. I'm sorry to say that I can't recall what it said after a few years but maybe you could investigate the doppler effect and some things apply for you as well. If I don't remember totally wrong the ears positioning makes sound coming from the back sound less clear and focused as well as picking up less hf content so maybe you can try something like that and then let the reverb be brighter than the actual sound?

Also there are some good articles on the net with topics like 3D mixing for headphones and the like that might be interesting.

create a sub buss, with a delay plugin-

create a send from the guitar track, to this fx sub.....

set the delay to wet only, 100%, and set the delay time for anywhere from 1 to 7 ms.
no feedback, no cross feed, just a very short pure delay (doubler)

pan the original signal full left, pan the delay send full right.

mix the original left signal til it's just in the mix the way you want, then bring up the send level of the delay feed.

then, process with eq, the delay sub, so that it either adds or takes away high end, to create the front-to-back effect.

Buddy110


Hey Guys,

Hey Guys, I've been doing a bit of listening to some of the 80's classic pop tunes and in particular Duran Duran's "Rio". During the chorus, the lead guitar feels like it's sitting somewhat behind the listeners head. How can I achieve this kind of effect in stereo? I've tried some reverb, but unless i'm getting it wrong with settings, I can't imitate it.

I've been doing a bit of listening to some of the 80's classic pop tunes and in particular Duran Duran's "Rio". During the chorus, the lead guitar feels like it's sitting somewhat behind the listeners head. How can I achieve this kind of effect in stereo? I've tried some reverb, but unless i'm getting it wrong with settings, I can't imitate it.

Slightly OT: I studied Art & Animation in College and one of the things that really helped the students advance was "Master Copy", where each month we were given a drawing or painting that we had to imitate (replicate is too strong a word) in style as much as possible. Have any of you guys used a favourite song production and try and match it from instrument notes to the final mastered track? (I've been doing it myself and learned a lot sonically ...slowly, but a lot.....a guitar here....a bass there, etc)

My 2 cents:
 
Reverb for sure (or delay) .... then Panning ... and EQ.   It is often said that sounds that are "brighter" sound more upfront.  Sounds that are softer/duller sound more distant.   (Thunder is a good example).
 
SO, if the part is recorded well (ie, not crazy peaks, if so use a compressor), panned appropriately, delayed and/or echo'd, then EQ'd appropriately, that would do it.
 
Have you ever noticed how some stereo recordings - aside from the usual sense of "Left/Right/Center" also seem to have an "Upper/Lower" and a "Closer/Distant" ?   Obviously we all recognize those ;)
 
But listen carefully to those and you'll notice:  Environment (echos/delays), Position (panning), Depth (closer/distant -- EQ).
 
 

Whatever happened to that trick Michael Jackson did?  I wish I could remember the song, but I remember seeing the "making of" video, and MJ's skin tone was more mocha than vanilla.

The trick/technique I'm thinking of is the placement of two small microphones on a styrofoam head, placed right where the ears would be.  MJ then sang as he walked around the head.  The idea was a listener wearing headphones would experience a 3-D effect.