Platinum freezes after creating CWB files

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pencilartist
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2015/03/08 16:07:25 (permalink)

Platinum freezes after creating CWB files

I am doing some long overdue bundling. My process has been this: open a project, save as CWB, then delete the original (I have Sonar do this). That all works fine (most of the time), but when I open the next project to work on it, I get trouble. The project typically opens, and it may even begin to play if asked to, but Sonar goes into the (not responding) mess, then I have to close it. Once I restart Sonar, I can go right on to the next file and it works fine.
 
At what step have I caused this freeze-up to happen, if it's indeed my own fault?
 
I have also determined this will not happen if I do not delete between songs.
post edited by pencilartist - 2015/03/08 16:15:31

Sonar Platinum, Win10 64bit, i5 with 32gb ram, 480gb SSD C drive, 240gb SSD scratch drive, 2tb Cakewalk project drive, dual 24" monitors, M-Audio M-Track Quad, Event TR8 monitors, Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones, lots of guitars and other toys.
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    Splat
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/08 16:08:31 (permalink)
    This is one for troubleshooting in the Sonar forums...

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #2
    pencilartist
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/08 16:09:43 (permalink)
    Then if someone can move it, please do so.

    Sonar Platinum, Win10 64bit, i5 with 32gb ram, 480gb SSD C drive, 240gb SSD scratch drive, 2tb Cakewalk project drive, dual 24" monitors, M-Audio M-Track Quad, Event TR8 monitors, Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones, lots of guitars and other toys.
    #3
    slartabartfast
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/09 13:38:40 (permalink)
    I notice that the Sonar documentation is now suggesting to use bundle files primarily (exclusively?) to transfer from one computer to another. It has always been deprecated as an archiving technique by many of the users. These forums have been rife with failed to open bundle files over the years. Other people have great faith in the format and have never had a problem. Saving projects to their own folder and then backing up those folders in their native format is the safest route. Compressing the project folder adds another level of risk. 
     
    One potential problem with the bundle file is that it cannot be opened in safe mode. There was a recent post here where someone found that a bundle would not open at all, apparently because he did not have a plugin that was called in the bundled project. The same project saved in native format and opened in safe mode would have allowed him to bypass the troublesome non-plugin and get access to the project.
    #4
    pencilartist
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/09 14:04:44 (permalink)
    Bundles I am making today reopen easily. I'm still able to open bundles made before Sonar.
     
    But why would Sonar freeze after deleting the original project?

    Sonar Platinum, Win10 64bit, i5 with 32gb ram, 480gb SSD C drive, 240gb SSD scratch drive, 2tb Cakewalk project drive, dual 24" monitors, M-Audio M-Track Quad, Event TR8 monitors, Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones, lots of guitars and other toys.
    #5
    tbosco
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/09 14:45:29 (permalink)
    My SONAR Platinum freezes when I try to open a cwb file.  Have to do a cntrl-alt-del to get out.  I have a previous recent thread on this.  Craig Anderton (and others) gave some good advice.
     
    Good luck!

    Cheers!

    Tony

    SONAR Platinum
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    #6
    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/09 15:34:21 (permalink)
    pencilartist
    Bundles I am making today reopen easily. I'm still able to open bundles made before Sonar.
     
    But why would Sonar freeze after deleting the original project?




    That freezing is a mystery to me, but I would never trust only cwb-files in storing my projects. Then again, I have read many, many posts about freezing when exiting SONAR, but I can't recall ever seeing a clear answer to that issue.
     
    The point is: If a bundle goes corrupt, your project is gone forever, if a cwp gets corrupt, you still have the audio
    (if that's any comfort if your projects contain a lot of MIDI :o/)

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
    The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
    #7
    pencilartist
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/09 15:53:08 (permalink)
    When I create bundles, I test reopening them after creation. They get stored to DVD and tested again. You might assume I do know the horror of losing them forever. :)

    Sonar Platinum, Win10 64bit, i5 with 32gb ram, 480gb SSD C drive, 240gb SSD scratch drive, 2tb Cakewalk project drive, dual 24" monitors, M-Audio M-Track Quad, Event TR8 monitors, Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones, lots of guitars and other toys.
    #8
    slartabartfast
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/09 17:01:45 (permalink)
    Consider the scenario where your bundle contains a project with a call to a plugin that is not on the computer where you want to open it. And consider the not unheard of case, where that plugin is either a) no longer available anywhere in the version required, or B) you are no longer licensed to use it because your subscription has expired. The fact that you could open the bundle immediately after you saved it does not necessarily mean you will be able to open it in a couple of years. The bundle file is not a compressed format. You will save more space by zipping the project folder.
    #9
    pencilartist
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/09 17:17:00 (permalink)
    Considered, and lived. I have been at this for a number of years. I have opened bundles which are 10 years old, where numerous plugins are no longer present, and had no crashes or failures to open.
     
    The matter of why Sonar crashes between deleting a project and opening a project is my issue. Not the wisdom of using CWB files.

    Sonar Platinum, Win10 64bit, i5 with 32gb ram, 480gb SSD C drive, 240gb SSD scratch drive, 2tb Cakewalk project drive, dual 24" monitors, M-Audio M-Track Quad, Event TR8 monitors, Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro headphones, lots of guitars and other toys.
    #10
    dan le
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/09 17:26:11 (permalink)
    I don't think we should backup using the bundle format.
    But I do use bundle files a lot, and again, only to shrink the size of the song down to exactly I need.
    In the CWP format, things get stored after you edit, delete, bouncing, rebouncing, etc...
    Even if I use the clean audio file, things were still there.
    Only saving in the bundle file format will get rid of unwanted stuff.
    But here is the catcher. right after I save the song to bundle, to shrink down the size of the file, I reopen it and save it in the CWP format into a new directory, then to an external USB drive, then reopen from the external drive twice just to be safe.
    After CW came out with Per Project Folder, using bundle files might not be the safest way to backup your work.
    Yes CW want us to use bundle to send a project back and forth, but you can achieve the same thing by compressing the whole folder using Rar, and then send it.
    With bundle files, a single hiccup will stop it from loading.
    I have not lost a single song in 10 years yet, using 3 external USB drives to backup. Talking about OCD. Ha ha.
    dan
     
    #11
    Splat
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/10 08:49:40 (permalink)
    We keep hearing about issues but I've never had an issue with a bundle file.
    I wonder if a virus scanner is interfering ...
     

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #12
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/10 22:39:14 (permalink)
    Its incorrect info that bundle files wont load if plugins are missing. The load is no different from CWP in this regard.
    Regarding the hang is anyone can repro it or post a sample project well fix it.

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
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    #13
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/10 23:21:13 (permalink)
    I think what Dan has done is brilliant and I agree with his idea.
    Other than stripping files of unwanted data there is no longer any point to bundle files.
    You need to take command of your storage and keep everything in proper manageable folders.
     
    Those folders should exist in more than one or 2 locations. 
    Hard drives are cheap and huge. I am not at all worried about the size of my project folders any more. 
    I both perform "save as" to extra drive locations as well as drag and drop entire folders with 20 songs in them to other locations. 
    I've been doing this for 10 years and never have lost or had a project go sideways. 

    Johnny V  
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    #14
    Splat
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/11 00:16:32 (permalink)
    Bundles files are great for portability. I use them on wetransfer.com all the time. And you know the person at the other end will have everything. It's quick and easy.

    I don't see it as a storage medium.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #15
    tbosco
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/11 08:47:17 (permalink)
    Noel (and all)... I have been trying to collaborate on a project with Jan on her "Impromptu" song (see the "Songs" Forum), and she has sent me the tune in CWB format several times, both with and without the Ozone 4 plugin.
    She sends the file to me via the "WeTransfer" website which works perfectly for me on all other files. 
    After I download the file and try to start Sonar Platinum with it, it will load the guitar audio file, but the synth/MIDI tracks never show up, and the whole program freezes and I have to do the Cntrl-AltDel thing to get out of Sonar.
     
    So we have given up on the collaboration for now.  Help?  (Others have recommended to not use the bundle file, but ZIP it up and send it.)  Storage is not the issue. It's sharing between computers.
     
    I apologize if I have hijacked this thread pencilartist.

    Cheers!

    Tony

    SONAR Platinum
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    #16
    mettelus
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/11 12:19:43 (permalink)
    If the bundle is still on WeTransfer that is ideal for troubleshooting. Can send Noel a PM with a link to it (if still there).

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #17
    tbosco
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    Re: Platinum freezes after creating CWB files 2015/03/11 12:44:01 (permalink)
    I sent Noel a PM with the download link.

    Cheers!

    Tony

    SONAR Platinum
    JNCS Computer with Asus X99 Motherboard (i7)
    Win10 Pro 64bit, 32GB RAM
    Motif XF7, Komplete 11, Ozone 7, 
    Komplete Kontrol 88 keys,
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    #18
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