billclarkmusic
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Platinum memory usage problems
I just upgraded from X2 to Platinum. I'm loading a file that uses ~90% of my 32gb (lots and lots of Kontakt VI's). In X2, it played with no issues - maybe a very occasional dropout, which would get fixed the next time through. In Platinum, a) there are frequent dropouts, and they increase with repeated playings; b) there is constant disk activity at or near 100% (in X2 it stayed near 0%); c) RAM usage increases with repeated playings until the program crashes.
Does anyone else see this? Is there a setting in Platinum that needs to be changed?
Thanks for any help,
Bill
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listen
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 15:07:14
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Bill Clark -
I can't say that I have seen it exactly like your describing it - but - it sounds like you might need to increase your buffer size. This is just a thought not knowing if you have already considered your buffer.
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billclarkmusic
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 15:24:45
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I've tried adjusting the driver setting for mixing latency buffer size; I had it at 20 msec (882 samples), and bumped it up to 100 msec; no improvement. In Kontakt, I tried upping one instrument's preload buffer size from 30kb to 60; this causes things to go downhill fast as SONAR grabs more and more memory. As I said, all this was working fine in X2, so it seems that something has radically changed about the DFD algorithm. I'm hoping there's some new setting will get it back to a point where I can use it; otherwise it'll be X2 for a while yet for me.
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slartabartfast
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 16:03:01
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It sounds like a memory leak i.e. unused memory is not being returned to the pool.
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billclarkmusic
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 16:04:39
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I also changed the options under Sync and Caching - I had read and write caching enabled, so I disabled them, and I upped the playback buffer size from 256k to 1024k. It's very slightly better, but the same behaviors still happen: frequent dropouts, increasing memory use over time, and constant disk activity.
I'm baffled at this point....
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billclarkmusic
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 16:06:04
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slartabartfast
It sounds like a memory leak i.e. unused memory is not being returned to the pool.
Agreed -- but if it's a memory leak, I'd think everyone would be seeing it. Maybe the only reason I'm affected by it is that I'm using so much of my available RAM?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 16:32:07
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Probably a pointless question, but are you using the latest versions of Sonar and Kontakt? What about Windows Updates?
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billclarkmusic
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 16:38:30
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Sanderxpander
Probably a pointless question, but are you using the latest versions of Sonar and Kontakt? What about Windows Updates?
Yes - I just downloaded Sonar yesterday, and updated Kontakt a few days ago. Windows (7) is up to date as well. I just loaded the project again in X2 and paid closer attention to how it behaves. I see some of the same things; memory usage goes up until all samples are loaded, then it levels off and stays steady. There are dropouts (more than I remembered), but they do all go away the second time through. It could be that Platinum is just taking more memory than X2, so it's putting me a lot closer to using 100% of RAM - maybe it's not able to do the buffering it wants to do, or something like that. I've got more memory coming (it'll be up to 64gb!). We'll see what happens then.
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abacab
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 17:07:10
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billclarkmusic
slartabartfast
It sounds like a memory leak i.e. unused memory is not being returned to the pool.
Agreed -- but if it's a memory leak, I'd think everyone would be seeing it. Maybe the only reason I'm affected by it is that I'm using so much of my available RAM?
Sounds like it. Doubt that the majority of users frequently run at 90% of installed memory. Try this: http://www.cakewalk.com/S...Contact/Problem-Report
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Zargg
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 17:32:46
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Hi. Have you tried yo increase the "Prepare using ...ms" in Preferences, MIDI, Playback and Recording to 500? It changed in Platinum, IIRC.
All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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Anonymungus!
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 17:50:40
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Recommend upgrading to Windows 10 which has been optimized for MIDI use, especially if you're running a hundred MIDI tracks. 
Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime, Windows 10 x64, Intel Quad Core CPU@3.40GHz, 8GB RAM, (2)1.5T Hard Drives, Presonus AudioBox 44VSL, Roland A-500Pro MIDI Controller & lots more stuff
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billclarkmusic
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 18:01:56
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Zargg
Hi. Have you tried yo increase the "Prepare using ...ms" in Preferences, MIDI, Playback and Recording to 500? It changed in Platinum, IIRC.
All the best.
At 500 it's very slightly better, but I still get the same problems - just not quite as bad. At 1000 it's worse than at 250. Strangely, in all cases, playing it repeatedly causes more dropouts each time. I've never seen that before from SONAR.
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billclarkmusic
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 18:02:31
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Anonymungus!
Recommend upgrading to Windows 10 which has been optimized for MIDI use, especially if you're running a hundred MIDI tracks.
That's a possibility. First I want to see what a memory upgrade does.
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Zargg
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 19:03:55
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billclarkmusic
Zargg
Hi. Have you tried yo increase the "Prepare using ...ms" in Preferences, MIDI, Playback and Recording to 500? It changed in Platinum, IIRC.
All the best.
At 500 it's very slightly better, but I still get the same problems - just not quite as bad. At 1000 it's worse than at 250. Strangely, in all cases, playing it repeatedly causes more dropouts each time. I've never seen that before from SONAR.
It is not a one size fits all. Try different settings. Higher is not necessarily better. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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chuckebaby
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/30 20:15:30
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What are using for a soundcard ?
I did have an issue like this recently and for me it turned out to be my Anti virus.
It was so bad I could literally hear my I7 crying it was winding so hard.
my best guess is the plug ins were throwing off a PUP warning and my AV was scanning it each time.
but it didn't show up in TM. so I had no idea what it was.
I added an exception for Sonars plug in folder locations, the Plug in scanner, the EXE...everything I could think of and the next time I re booted my PC it was gone. absolutely fine.
You might be able to go through one by one and load each plug in seeing if its one plug in that is the offender.
Open Sonar in safe mode (Hold down SHIFT while opening Sonar).
This might help you narrow down if one plug in is the offender. I wouldn't even think RAM has anything to do with it.
I load a ton of SS and sometimes have 50+ tracks loaded with plug ins and im only using 16GB of RAM.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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billclarkmusic
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/31 13:08:32
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Solved -- by adding another 32gb of RAM. Everything plays fine now. When it's all loaded up, RAM usage goes to 54%. So previously, it was wanting to use 108% of the available memory, it couldn't do it, and the symptoms I saw were the result. It must be that Platinum is a bit more memory-hungry than X2. Hopefully this thread will be of use to some future user who has a similarly crazy number of Kontakt instances.  Thanks to all for your suggestions. I learned some useful things. Bill
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JonD
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/31 13:27:32
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Wow, you needed 64GB to run smoothly.
This is a first here, AKAIK.
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billclarkmusic
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/31 13:42:50
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JonD
Wow, you needed 64GB to run smoothly.
This is a first here, AKAIK.
75 Kontakt instances and 16 EWQLSO instances... that's a first for me as well. It's a bit of an experiment, and I'm not going to keep all of them, but I want the ability to A/B test a bunch them in different combinations. Now that I have enough RAM, I can even consider throwing in a few more. ;)
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chuckebaby
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/31 14:00:02
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This is one of the craziest things I've ever heard.
(75 Instances of Kontakt, plus 16 EWQLSO)
Would a real life situation would ever call for something like this ?
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Zargg
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/31 14:12:21
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It would not been at the top of my suggestions, to have to increase RAM to double of a what you had  Glad you got it working 
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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abacab
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/31 14:20:24
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I guess it does make the point that there is a limit to practical headroom for RAM usage. Just as they recommend that you not fill your boot drive up to 100% ... Good thing RAM is relatively cheap. But 75 instances of Kontakt ... wow! 
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billclarkmusic
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/31 14:33:26
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I know... it's a crazy number of instruments. But could it realistically happen? I don't know... seems like it's possible. This is a string orchestra piece, with 4 divisi violin and viola parts, 3 divisi cello parts, 2 bass parts, 2 solo violins, 1 solo viola and 1 solo cello. So with one instance for each, you'd be up to 17 instances. Since I don't have all the articulations I want in any single instance, I pretty much have to double that, so maybe 34 or so is what I'll end up with. But... this is just a string orchestra! Add in the rest of the orchestra, and you could get up to a pretty big number. Granted, with a bigger orchestral piece, you wouldn't be likely to need that much detail... but you might! Like I said, just experimenting right now.
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bitflipper
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/31 21:42:21
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I'm trying to envision a real-life scenario with 75 instances of Kontakt...can't. Even if you were building an 80-piece orchestra out of individual solo instruments, you could still manage that with only 5 instances of Kontakt.
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billclarkmusic
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Re: Platinum memory usage problems
2016/12/31 21:49:58
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bitflipper
I'm trying to envision a real-life scenario with 75 instances of Kontakt...can't. Even if you were building an 80-piece orchestra out of individual solo instruments, you could still manage that with only 5 instances of Kontakt.
So you'd have 16 instruments per instance. I know that can be done, but as a practical matter, how would you work on the individual parts? I don't know of a way to arrange the piano roll or (especially) the staff view in a way that would be tolerable. Could be my own ignorance... I've always avoided the multiple-instruments-per-instance approach because editing became such a pain. If there's a good way to do it, do tell!
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