Helpful ReplyPlease consider Sonar for Linux

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Psalmist
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2016/08/07 22:20:54 (permalink)

Please consider Sonar for Linux

I have been a faithful customer since windows 3.1.  Honestly, I disagree with Microsoft's monopolistic practices, and would rather not use Windows at all.  Cakewalk products are THE reason why I continue to use Windows.
 
Is there any hope of a port to Linux?  I believe this would be fantastic for Linux and for Sonar.
 
Thanks for your consideration. :) 
#1
BlixYZ
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/08 06:58:00 (permalink)
That would be fantastic, but in what way are CW's practices monopolistic?

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#2
gustabo
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/08 07:09:45 (permalink)
BlixYZ
That would be fantastic, but in what way are CW's practices monopolistic?

He never said they were.


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gswitz
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/08 08:10:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Psalmist 2016/08/09 12:40:24
He said Microsoft leveraged monopolistic power which most people agree is anti-competitive behavior. As a regular Linux Ubuntu Studio user, I'd love to see sonar on Linux.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#4
vanblah
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/08 11:37:07 (permalink)
+1 from me on this.  Mac and Windows have both gotten way too intrusive.  An OS should get out of the way and let you work--no matter what you're doing.  Both of these "operating systems" spy on you and constantly nag.  Ubuntu is quickly catching up on the nagging--and don't even get me started on Redhat and its derivatives.  Just give me a lean OS that gets out of the way.
 
There's more to it than just Sonar though, hardware developers would need to release stable drivers for interfaces--at least for me to trust it.  
 
All of those VST plugins we love would also have to be ported over, because, as far as I know there's no native VST(i) support in any flavor.  Some developers have already ported their software to LinuxVST, but that list is fairly small.
 
I really hope this becomes a reality one day--and it probably will, but it's such a huge task I'm not holding my breath for it to happen soon.  Meanwhile I'll continue to fight Windows and its intrusiveness ... at least while it's still possible.
post edited by vanblah - 2016/08/08 14:11:04
#5
JayCee99
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/08 12:11:00 (permalink)
In theory I agree that having a Linux version would be nice.  However, having messed around with Linux quite frequently over the years and tried a few DAWs for Linux (Ardour, LMMS) I think there are the following major hurdles:
1) Linux still has an extremely tiny share of the desktop market, so I don't know how they'd have a business case for investing in a Linux version.
2) Few hardware manufacturers provide drivers for Linux.  That's not to say that the hardware won't work, but it will probably use drivers that are created by the community.
3) Very few VST manufacturers develop Linux versions.  This is not an issue if you can accept using LinuxVST or other open source formats.  But I would not be OK with that since I use programs like Addictive Drums and Komplete.
 
That being said, Ubuntu has released a SNAP package format that would probably work well for this type of thing, since it includes all libraries, etc needed for the specific program. 
 
The biggest issue though is #1. . .
 

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#6
bapu
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/08 12:49:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kevinwal 2016/09/21 03:00:54
Linux...... pfft
 
Sinclair is the way to go if you want a lean OS.

#7
gswitz
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/08 13:03:54 (permalink)
Bapu, you are just jealous.

As far as drivers are concerned, this isn't an issue for class compliant interface of which there are a surprising number.

Regarding plugins, Melda plugins work using wine.

Market share may be small now, but I love it so it is bound to succeed.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#8
Soundwise
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/08 13:48:28 (permalink)
I wonder, what do Linux users expect from a DAW port to that OS? Some great DAWs are already ported to Linux, does that make it suitable for any serious audio production?

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#9
bapu
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/08 14:02:10 (permalink)
gswitz
Market share may be small now, but I love it so it is bound to succeed.

Were you an early backer of CompuServe? 
 
#10
Psalmist
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/09 12:48:15 (permalink)
Some great replies guys. Thanks. :)
 
There are a few things I would like to answer.  I was running Ubuntu Studio for a bit. It was fantastic in many ways. Tracktion runs great in it, and it is a good DAW.  BUT, it just ain't Sonar!  I'm thinking of re-educating myself in Music now that I'm retired (never got that degree), and the school I want to attend requires Cubase or Sonar. When I say I am a long time fan of Cakewalk, I bought the software (believing it was for DOS) before I had Windows. I actually bought Windows 3.1 to run Cakewalk. Cakewalk even then, rocked. 
 
I realize this would be a tremendous task for programmers.  
I think Linux's multi-platform abilities, and its transparency with open source,  would make it worth it. Ports to some of the lighter weight OS's would be easy because Chrome OS, Android, Steam OS and others are all Linux variants. Linux may not rule the desktop, but I'm hoping that will change. :) Think of a portable system with Sonar embedded/installed along with you for gigs. Hmmm Cakewalk OS has a nice ring...
 
Rock on fellow creators
post edited by Psalmist - 2016/08/09 13:33:44
#11
bapu
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/09 14:06:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tlw 2016/08/09 16:41:09
Psalmist
Linux may not rule the desktop, but I'm hoping that will change. :) 

People have been hoping that..... going on 20+ years now.
#12
Sycraft
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/09 14:15:33 (permalink)
bapu
People have been hoping that..... going on 20+ years now.



And there hasn't been much change in the way Linux does things that would make it happen. The way Linux is designed, the way the community likes it to be, are not conducive to desktop use for most people. Now that's fine. Not everything has to be in every space. Linux is quite popular in web and file servers and exceedingly popular in embedded devices. However it would take a shift in how Linux is done to make it a good desktop OS and the community isn't interested in that. Instead the idea seems to be that people should just learn to like it, which isn't going to happen.
 
Unless there's a big change, and I doubt there will be, Linux is going to stay where it is.
 
All technical issues aside, there's also just the issue that we as humans gravitate towards common solutions, and often the first one that gets traction becomes the one we use. Windows has the place of primacy and is unlikely to use it because it is "good enough". It works, so everyone uses it, so people keep developing for it, so people keep using it and so on. A change is just not likely.
#13
Psalmist
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/09 15:53:07 (permalink)
Sycraft
bapu
People have been hoping that..... going on 20+ years now.



...are not conducive to desktop use for most people. 



Actually, the first desktop was XWindows, not Windows...   There are many desktops for linux available. Most of them top notch. I think you have a point about how things are done however. Linux users generally want to know what is happening under the hood, and sometimes can be obtuse about simple use. There are some Distributions that cater to those used to Windows however. The beauty of Linux is that anyone can create a distribution for any use. Most modern Distributions are quite easy to use, and very functional. If you have not tried Linux lately, give it a go.
#14
Psalmist
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/09 16:18:55 (permalink)
Listening to Bapu's Streets of Juarex..  nice :)
 
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bapu
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/09 16:26:07 (permalink)
Psalmist
Listening to Bapu's Streets of Juarex..  nice :)
 


Thanks.
#16
JayCee99
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/09 18:00:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Psalmist 2016/10/30 15:42:51
I did a little bit of research and it looks like Reaper is actually coming to Linux as well:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Reaper-DAW-For-Linux
 
This is pretty interesting.  Although the idea of music production in Linux appeals to my nerdy side, I've been down that road a few times before.  It always ends in tons of tinkering and research, which I tend to enjoy for a while, and then me eventually realizing that my ability to do actual work is greatly diminished in Linux and going back to Windows. 
 
Reaper is a good DAW for Linux because it's very light and has some very basic plugins that are embedded with it.  So out of the box you can do pretty much everything if you're doing audio recording.  VST synths can be done but the options are way more limited than Windows.
 
Anyway, it would certainly be cool to run Sonar in Linux.  But I'd probably end up running it in Windows anyway.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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#17
bapu
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/09 18:21:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2016/08/09 19:09:49
Don't forget Mixbus3/Mixbus32C both run on Linux and if you were to use only their plugs (LV2), you have a decent lightwieght DAW for audio. It's MIDI implementation is pretty weak ATM.
 
Sadly, if you bought all their plugs and Mixbus32c you be in multiple hundred$ (even when the DAW and plugs are on sale).
#18
kennywtelejazz
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/09 19:05:41 (permalink)
It looks like bapu beat me to the punch on the Mixbus suggestion
Many of the people that use that DAW have said it runs better in Linux than it does in OSX and Windows ...
I only have it in OSX and Windows .. it may be worth a look ...
 
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#19
JClosed
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/09 19:45:28 (permalink)
Well - I am using Linux for years now, and a lot of sound cards (especially Firewire or USB cards) run very well and stable using the Jack Sound Server. I would love to see Sonar on Linux too.
 
I already have done a trial with (the native Linux version of) Bitwig Studio, and that went so well that I think I will purchase that software. Their forum on KVR has a few really Linux active members, that help with getting VST stuff working with Airwave.
 
So - a Sonar port would be very welcome here.. ;-).
#20
Sycraft
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/10 03:01:06 (permalink)
Psalmist
Actually, the first desktop was XWindows, not Windows...   There are many desktops for linux available. Most of them top notch. I think you have a point about how things are done however. Linux users generally want to know what is happening under the hood, and sometimes can be obtuse about simple use. There are some Distributions that cater to those used to Windows however. The beauty of Linux is that anyone can create a distribution for any use. Most modern Distributions are quite easy to use, and very functional. If you have not tried Linux lately, give it a go.



Your comment on XWindows confuses the use of the term desktop. When people are talking about Linux (or Windows) on the desktop we are talking about people using it as a home/work desktop OS, not the actual rendering layer.
 
I work in IT, I have plenty of Linux experience, and that's where my assessment of it's status as a desktop OS. The design philosophy is just hard for many users (and organizations) to work with. Multiple distributions seems great to geeks but it confusing to a regular user. They discover they can't go and get "Linux" that there is in fact a bunch of different things that are "Linux" and the differences between them can be pretty extreme. Compatibility is also not great, you find things that really only want to run in their one particular flavour of Linux and unless you are highly technically skilled getting them to run in another one is impossible. The variability of Linux, which is highly desirable to the community, is counter-indicated for mainstream desktop adoption.
 
Likewise the focus on source code availability and distribution. It is core to what makes Linux what it is, but is intimidating to users. The concept of compiling software is alien and seems extremely daunting. Arguing that it is (or at least should be) simple doesn't change the perception of it. 
 
If Linux works for you as a desktop OS that's great, but you should recognize that is not the case for everyone. Also trying to argue it is a good enough alternative won't work for most people. If they have something they like, something else has to be a lot better to get them to switch. They don't care about political arguments, to them a computer is a tool, not a statement.
#21
THambrecht
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/10 03:58:47 (permalink)
There are no professional audiointerfaces and no professional controller for Linux.
So Linux would only be a reason for a few amateurs.
You can play with Linux or make music. But not both.

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#22
microapp
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/08/10 07:29:32 (permalink)
THambrecht
There are no professional audiointerfaces and no professional controller for Linux.
So Linux would only be a reason for a few amateurs.
You can play with Linux or make music. But not both.

+1 to this.
There is no one Linux for something as complex as Sonar. Cake would have to double the devel staff just to support the various distros and desktops.
Every few years I try the latest and greatest Debian,Ubuntu or Mint. This goes back to about 2000 or so.
If you want to run a webserver...great!
If you want to surf the web, check your email, do office stuff...great!
If you want to make music...not so great.
I have had to compile various display, audio and network drivers for the build and hardware I was using a number of times.
I cannot imagine the devel/support nightmare a Linux version would create and for what... 0.1% or less of users.
I think the OSX version is a great marketing idea. Linux...not so much.

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#23
abacab
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/09/12 11:56:58 (permalink)
microapp
There is no one Linux for something as complex as Sonar. Cake would have to double the devel staff just to support the various distros and desktops.
Every few years I try the latest and greatest Debian,Ubuntu or Mint. This goes back to about 2000 or so.
If you want to run a webserver...great!
If you want to surf the web, check your email, do office stuff...great!
If you want to make music...not so great.
I have had to compile various display, audio and network drivers for the build and hardware I was using a number of times.
I cannot imagine the devel/support nightmare a Linux version would create and for what... 0.1% or less of users.
I think the OSX version is a great marketing idea. Linux...not so much.

 
+1 to the above.
 
I setup a Linux box to work as a desktop, as well as a VM host for various web server technologies, for my studies in web development. 
 
I thought, hey this is pretty cool, now let's see if I can run some DAW stuff on it.  So I spent a weekend trying to get various audio bits and pieces to work.
 
Afterwards I booted my Windows PC, loaded Sonar, and smiled.  It just worked
 
That said, I have pondered the possibility lately of someday seeing a Linux port for Sonar.  Especially since the MacOSX announcement.
 
I suppose it's theoretically possible since MacOSX and Linux are both Unix-like systems (MacOSX 10.5+ on Intel is certified as a UNIX). But there are still the different windowing systems, APIs, drivers, and on and on.  Not to mention that there are so many flavors of Linux to deal with, and developers making changes.
 
I believe that making music requires a stable environment.
 
But as mentioned above, support would be a big issue.  Think you have problems now with so many variations in a Windows PC hardware and software config?  Good luck with Linux, LOL!!!
 
The other issue is demand.  Desktop Linux users are a very small minority of the Linux world, even as Linux is eating the server world.  So there is little commercial incentive to port desktop apps unless there is a large enough user base to make it profitable.  Kind of a chicken or egg first question.
 
Don't get me wrong, I really think Linux has come a long way in the last 10 years, and I'm running the latest version of Linux Mint Cinnamon.  It is very smooth and polished, installation is even simpler than Windows.  Some of the things it does I like better than Windows.
 
But music creation isn't there yet, at least for me.  Media players work fine for playing recorded or streaming media.
 
But finally, here's an idea!  What if Cakewalk were to develop an Xbox style appliance for Sonar.  Plug and play.  With a walled garden approach, like Apple.  Use a customized Linux and spec the hardware to run audio. With full control of the hardware (including audio interface) tuned for Sonar, running only Sonar and approved plugins should be a cakewalk.  No support needed  (maybe, LOL)
 
Call it CakeBox!

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#24
panup
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/09/12 15:01:05 (permalink)
No SONAR for Linux, please.
 
In a dream world it would be fantastic to have SONAR in Windows, Apple, Linux, Android, MS-DOS and CP/M, but it would get too laborous to maintain, develop, test and support for the company. 
 
 
#25
DrLumen
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/09/12 15:21:19 (permalink)
+1 to the Linux port! There is no reason that the Linux desktop should be shunned. It may have a bit of a learning curve for windows users but what new app doesn't?
 
While some of the linux attraction is the large number of forks, that is also one of the things that is holding it back.  Personally, I think Linus should specify a linux base OS that includes various drivers and window API. This base would be what all other apps would use for development/compatibility testing. If someone wanted to fork the base then that company or developer would be responsible for the compatibility of the various apps for their fork. That would shift the onus of support and development nightmare from developers like Cakewalk to the linux distributors. It would also have the effect of stopping all the knee jerk changes that happen in the various forks or the desire to create more forks. If they refused to support the spec'd base then those branches would likely die on the vine.

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#26
microapp
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/09/12 15:51:25 (permalink)
There is a very good reason NOT to support Linux. There is an insignificant user base. For audio, it is essentially zero. I would much prefer Cake spend time on fixing bugs and adding new features.

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#27
abacab
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/09/12 15:57:06 (permalink)
microapp
There is a very good reason NOT to support Linux. There is an insignificant user base. For audio, it is essentially zero. I would much prefer Cake spend time on fixing bugs and adding new features.




Well it's never going to happen, so no worries really. 
 
No business case for it. 
 
It's just now making it to MacOSX.  We'll see how that works out.  Much larger user base of computer musicians there.

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#28
azslow3
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/09/12 17:36:29 (permalink)
abacab
But finally, here's an idea!  What if Cakewalk were to develop an Xbox style appliance for Sonar.  Plug and play.  With a walled garden approach, like Apple.  Use a customized Linux and spec the hardware to run audio. With full control of the hardware (including audio interface) tuned for Sonar, running only Sonar and approved plugins should be a cakewalk.  No support needed  (maybe, LOL)
 
Call it CakeBox!



microapp
There is a very good reason NOT to support Linux. There is an insignificant user base. For audio, it is essentially zero. I would much prefer Cake spend time on fixing bugs and adding new features.



As "a box", Sonar will drift toward hardware "recording studio". And there is a problem: touchscreen support nor control surface support in Sonar are not on the level to avoid keyboard/mouse. On the other hand, bringing both to that level can help selling "normal" Sonar to people with tablets/notebooks with touch screen.
 
But "CakeLix", Sonar running live under some live Linux version (specially customized) not only can attract new users, F.e. with "Put THIS image on USB stick and reboot your computer. No installation required! Test amazing DAW without danger for your current system!", but also troubleshoot the system: if such live version can run on your computer, probably crashes/problems comes from other software.
 
Note that Sonar up to X2 can run under Wine in standard Linux. I have developed all my plug-ins there (running Linux native gcc crosscompiler). One day I am going to spend some time installing required for Splat MS runtimes...
 

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
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www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#29
kitekrazy1
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Re: Please consider Sonar for Linux 2016/09/12 20:28:14 (permalink)
microapp
There is a very good reason NOT to support Linux. There is an insignificant user base. For audio, it is essentially zero. I would much prefer Cake spend time on fixing bugs and adding new features.




 That was the attitude at Image Line as well.

Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4,  NVidia 750ti, AP2496
 
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
#30
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