Plug in volume question

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junedrive
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2011/07/14 17:05:33 (permalink)

Plug in volume question

I have Izopopes Alloy on a vocal track.  If I pull the track fader all the way down there is no volume but the signal still comes thru strong in the plugin, as if the volume is still high.  Even if I pull the bus fader for that track all the way down I still get the strong signal in the plugin.  Must be a good reason for it but I haven't a clue what it is.   

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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/14 17:19:19 (permalink)
    The fader is post effects bin. The gain is pre effects bin
     
    Edit.
    The bus can be pre or post fader, depending on what you have it set to
    post edited by CJaysMusic - 2011/07/14 17:20:53

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    #2
    junedrive
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/14 17:38:40 (permalink)
    Hey C J, my fellow Floridian.  How you been?..I've been working on this project for a while now and just noticed this phenomenon.  I thought the plug was overloading a bit so I was hoping this was the reason.  Guess it's not. Sadly it must just be the way I sound.  Once again thanks for your help.

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    brundlefly
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/15 10:30:06 (permalink)
    I thought the plug was overloading a bit so I was hoping this was the reason.  Guess it's not.



    It could be, and as CJay said, the track Gain control is Pre-FX, so that's where you want to lower the input to the plug-in if it doesn't have it's own input level control.

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    #4
    junedrive
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/19 08:02:01 (permalink)
    Thanks for your input fellows, (no pun intended) When I turn the track fader and the gain all the way down, the compressor still shows the full signal is present.  I can't hear it but it is visible in the plugin. Only when I turn the compressor input down is signal reduced.  Is that normal behavior?  If gain is pre effects why is a signal passing through it when turned down? 

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    #5
    brundlefly
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/19 12:34:58 (permalink)
    I should clarify that Gain will not affect live input. It only affects the level of a recorded audio clip feeding the track input. But I got the impression you were talking about a part that has already been recorded, in which case, reducing the Gain should show a lower level input signal in the plug. I double-checked that this works as expected with Sonitus Compressor in X1.

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    #6
    junedrive
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/19 12:52:31 (permalink)
    Thanks Brundlefly,. Yes you are right it is recorded material. I just went back to my computer to confirm things with the sonitus compressor.
    track gain all the way down signal shows up strong in compressor
    track volume all the way down on track signal shows strong in comp
    input gain on sonitus all the way down there is still a rather strong signal visible.  I have sprung a leak somewhere huh?

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    #7
    brundlefly
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/19 14:52:32 (permalink)
    Weird. Not sure what's going on. If you check the signal flow diagram on page 811 of the X1 Reference Guide PDF, you'll see that it shows the Track Gain control being the first thing in the Track section, after Clips and before live Input and the FX Bin. So it will affect the signal level from a clip to the FX Bin, but not from a live input signal as I mentioned.

    I don't know of any config settings that can alter this, so if you can reproduce this in a basic project created from the Normal template, it might be time to call Tech Support. If it's only this project, something might be corrupted, or there's some project routing factor that we're missing.

    You mentioned that the track output is to a Vocal bus. But the plug is directly in the Track's FX Bin, right? 


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    #8
    junedrive
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/19 15:23:49 (permalink)
    Yeah weird! I tried it in another X1 project inserted on the vocal track as before with sonitus compressor and it responded the same.   About  half the signal is passing through with gain all the way down.  I'll give tech support a call.   I'll report back what they say.

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    lorneyb2
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/19 15:45:50 (permalink)
    I think the Track gain is only -18 to +18 so it would not cut the entire signal.  The bus gain is -inf to +6 so there you can actually totally cut the signal. 

    If you route the track to a bus and then with the (bus gain applied for pre)or send that bus to another you can see the difference in effect(post fader) on the plugin input compared to it being on the track.  I don't have an explanation for why it is set up that way(range of +-18) but I'm sure someone here can provide the rationale for it.
    post edited by lorneyb2 - 2011/07/19 15:49:28

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    #10
    junedrive
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/19 15:47:34 (permalink)
    ok just spoke with tech support and he said that it is functioning normally.  That the gain should only reduce the signal by about half.   Doesn't seem right to me but what do I know.  Brundlefly, when you tried this did it cut your input signal down to a nearly undetectable level or about halfway as suggested.   Just want to say this is not a hot rock vocal track.  Pretty much like the ballad reverbnation tracks below.

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    brundlefly
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/19 17:36:41 (permalink)
    ok just spoke with tech support and he said that it is functioning normally.  That the gain should only reduce the signal by about half.



    Well. it's true, as lorneyb2 pointed out, that track Gain can cut by only 18dB, but this should be plenty if all you want to do is take the edge off a hot input to a plugin. I thought you were saying that the input level to the FX wasn't budging at all when you lowered the track Gain. If you need to knock it down more than 18dB, you'll have to use an intermediate bus as lorneyb2 also suggested.

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    junedrive
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/19 18:18:20 (permalink)
    Thanks all! I wouldn't have been getting so darn nitpicky but I'm trying to sort out why I can't get things up to level and depth I envision.  I was hoping this was perhaps the problem.   Maybe I'll try singing lessons!! Once again thanks.  

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    #13
    bitflipper
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/19 19:55:03 (permalink)
    That the gain should only reduce the signal by about half.

    Somebody in CW support told you that? I wonder what they were talking about. An 18db reduction is a lot more than half, whether you're talking power or perception.

    In any case, you're better off using Alloy's input control anyway, assuming it's the first/only plugin in the fx bin. It should give you all the attenuation you could possibly need, right down to silence.


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    #14
    junedrive
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    Re:Plug in volume question 2011/07/20 11:14:37 (permalink)
    That's what I was told Bit but not a problem for I am doing as you suggested with Alloy.  

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