Plugin Debate anyone?

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dgrm44
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2008/10/13 12:47:54 (permalink)

Plugin Debate anyone?

I would like to start a thread discussing various plugins (not virtual instruments). With Sonar 8 I am beginning to believe there is no need to purchase additional plugins. We have Sonitus, VC64 and all the LP plugins now. We also have 3 reverbs to choose from. What else do I need? Are there any plugins that you consider must haves? If so then why? Convince me to buy it if you will

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    Mod Bod
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 12:59:13 (permalink)
    Depends on if your CD is fighting for shelf space at the corner Record store. If you are just doing it for fun, I can't argue with you.

    Luckily, I got the SONAR release that had the Timeworks EQ. I can't live without that one.

    A lot of the Voxengo plugins are nice. The Elephant limiter is great.


    Dave Modisette ... rocks a Purrrfect Audio Studio Pro rig.

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    ... And of course, the Facebook page. 
    #2
    dgrm44
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 13:04:09 (permalink)
    With the current plugins, I think we can get our songs to sound as good as most store cds.
    #3
    inmazevo
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 13:14:01 (permalink)
    Hmm.
    I don't think I could live without izotope Trash. For what I do, I prefer it to most other plugins of its type, and it definitely doesn't have a built-in equivalent within Sonar (IMHO).
    Same with izotope Spectron. Difficult little thing to program, but I've not seen its equal.

    As for compressors, or eq, or mastering effects... I use the ones in Sonar and Sound Forge 9 (also izotope, actually). Some day, I'll likely spring for ozone.

    - zevo
    #4
    Mod Bod
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 13:16:19 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: dgrm44

    With the current plugins, I think we can get our songs to sound as good as most store cds.

    With what I'm hearing, I don't know if I'd argue with you about it.

    Dave Modisette ... rocks a Purrrfect Audio Studio Pro rig.

    http://www.gatortraks.com 
    My music.
    ... And of course, the Facebook page. 
    #5
    syrath
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 13:19:04 (permalink)
    I like to have plugins that do something a little bit different from your standard run of the mill plugins. I quite like the Eiosis plugins as well as those from Audio Damage, many of which have no real equivalent on the market.
    #6
    AT
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 13:20:20 (permalink)
    The producer effects will just about do it. I still need Voxengo's Elephant limiter - a best bang for the buck. The other thing missing is some color (the VC-64 sounds to brash for me sometimes). I like Nomad Factory's Blue trackbox which is a channel strip with one stop shopping.

    The only other thing is some easier to use delays.

    @

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    #7
    cryophonik
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 13:34:18 (permalink)
    Sonar has great bread-n-butter plugins, especially the Sonitus plugins and VC64, but it doesn't offer some of the specialty effects that a lot of electronica-heads are into. Some of my fav's are:

    Tone2 WarmVerb - a "must-have" multi-FX in my book
    Tone2 FilterBank3 - a "must-have" filter in my book
    CamelSpace
    Glitch
    Sugar Bytes' Effectrix

    ORIGINAL: dgrm44

    Convince me to buy it if you will



    The word of some unknown people on a forum shouldn't convince you where/how to spend your hard-earned cash - that's what demos are for!

    cryophonik   |   soundcloud  |   Facebook

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    #8
    Jonbouy
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 13:47:01 (permalink)

    The word of some unknown people on a forum shouldn't convince you where/how to spend your hard-earned cash - that's what demos are for!


    Completely well said, but also having said that some of these unknown advocates are 'demos' in themselves when you hear the quality of their stuff.

    With that in mind I'm off to see if I can blag some demos off Tone 2 now....

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
    #9
    tyacko
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 13:49:43 (permalink)
    The current toolkit provided in the PE version is very good. However, there are third party plugs that simply do it better. Melodyne to me is much easier and better at what it does compared to V-Vocal. I use WaveArts TrackPlug plugin and love the real-time analyzer built into the EQ so I can see where my peaks and valleys are on an individual track at a time.

    I demoed the Pultec EQ/compressor from Waves and it added color and sounds so musical compared to anything we currently have in our toolkit. Others will tell you about the UAD plugs (like LA-2A compressor and such) and how they add magic to the mix.

    So, there are definitely better plugs than what we have but the ones we have can make some great music. However, there are still third party tools that just make great music a lot easier (and more efficiently) in my opinion.

    Tom
    #10
    dgrm44
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 13:52:35 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: cryophonik

    The word of some unknown people on a forum shouldn't convince you where/how to spend your hard-earned cash - that's what demos are for!


    I agree somewhat, however I also believe that I can get some ideas of what to look at from posting questions like this on here.
    #11
    thegeek
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 13:59:42 (permalink)
    +1 on the Audio Damage plugs!
    #12
    inmazevo
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 14:00:49 (permalink)
    I like these threads.
    Without them, there are plenty of plugins I wouldn't even know existed.

    Of course, I have to write them down and remember them.
    There's a synth I wanted that I heard about on a plugin recommendation thread, and for the life of me I can't remember the name of it to find it again. It had a "dinosaur swap" special offer, such that if you had a "dinosaur" hardware synth (like my z1), you got $50 off the price (and no, you didn't have to send in your old one).

    Not to hijack, but if that sounds familiar to anyone, PM me or something.

    - zevo
    #13
    bunnyfluffer
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 14:08:40 (permalink)
    it depends on your goals.

    i think the plugins that come with sonar (I'm still on 6.2.1) are awesome, and great meat and potatoes stuff. for me personally, I like getting different flavors - especially in effects processing - old school GRM plugins, audio damage, ohm force, there are others - even freebies on KVR... I have hardware by eventide, lexicon, TC, electrix, empirical and others if that gives you any idea of my tastes...

    the EQ in sonar is really great - and even though I have both a AUD-1 and a Liquid Mix, I use the built in EQ a lot.
    #14
    cmusicmaker
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 14:22:53 (permalink)
    Sonar's missing plugins...

    The FILTER
    1.Sonar does not yet have a heavyweight filter like Nitro or Camel Space

    The Multi tap delay
    2.A serious multi tap delay like Logics Delay designer or the equally excellent Richochet.

    The high end replacement for existing Limiters
    3.A top end Limiter like Elephant 3, PSP xenon or the superb MPL-1
    post edited by cmusicmaker - 2008/10/13 14:34:16
    #15
    John
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 14:37:30 (permalink)
    There also is the idea of the GUI of plugins. Sonar, as said and I might add I have said, is full of great plugins. Really all you need to do a song from start to finish. Yet often I will opt for a plug that I simply like to work with because it has a GUI I like. Or it gives me data that I want to see. There's so many good free and nearly free plugins that there simply is no good reason for limiting oneself to those in the box of Sonar. In a way its counter to the notion of plugins in the first place. However one can get plugin happy too. By having every plug ever made it could be just as bad as not having enough of them. What I have found useful is to delete those you never use. The ones you tend to goto most often are the ones one should make a menu for.

    Best
    John
    #16
    Jim Roseberry
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 14:41:12 (permalink)
    I would like to start a thread discussing various plugins (not virtual instruments). With Sonar 8 I am beginning to believe there is no need to purchase additional plugins. We have Sonitus, VC64 and all the LP plugins now. We also have 3 reverbs to choose from. What else do I need? Are there any plugins that you consider must haves? If so then why? Convince me to buy it if you will


    "Need" is a very subjective term.
    Sonar 8 PE certainly comes with enough to get the job done.
    Having said that, many folks add UAD and latest generation Waves (SSL, V-series, API) plugins for additional flavors.
    Personally, I like the Waves SSL bundle a whole lot.
    Can I work without it? Yes. Do I want to work without it? No!

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #17
    Treefight
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 14:43:37 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: tyacko

    The current toolkit provided in the PE version is very good. However, there are third party plugs that simply do it better. Melodyne to me is much easier and better at what it does compared to V-Vocal. I use WaveArts TrackPlug plugin and love the real-time analyzer built into the EQ so I can see where my peaks and valleys are on an individual track at a time.

    I demoed the Pultec EQ/compressor from Waves and it added color and sounds so musical compared to anything we currently have in our toolkit. Others will tell you about the UAD plugs (like LA-2A compressor and such) and how they add magic to the mix.

    So, there are definitely better plugs than what we have but the ones we have can make some great music. However, there are still third party tools that just make great music a lot easier (and more efficiently) in my opinion.

    Tom


    Definitely agree on Melodyne - it's in a class by itself, IMO. Also, you mentioned the Waves Pultec - I have the UAD-1/2 iteration, and it's amazing, as are all of their plugs. For the most part, Sonar hasn't distributed anything that can touch the UA plugs; I said for the MOST PART, not for all. Some of Sonar's plugs are world-class in comparison to some (very few) of UAs, though I can't think of any right now.

    Anyhow, IMO, one does not need to spend ANY money to make world class mixes (I say mixes, b/c to record you have to spend money on mics, etc.), assuming you have a computer. There are more good quality free plug-ins out there than you could possibly ever need. Same is true for DAWs and softsynths. Just pick up an issue of Computer Music and copy the entire "CM Studio," and you'll have everything you need to make just about any type of music, at least from the software end of things. It's actually quite incredible. Of course, there are great free plugs and terrible free plugs, etc., and sifting through them can be a PITA, but it's all out there for the taking if you have the time and patience, free of charge.

    That said, for me, it's true that "you get what you pay for" FOR THE MOST PART. So, while free plugs are great, and Sonar's plugs are even greater than a lot of the free ones, combine them and you should be all set. But, if you have the resources to pick up "pro" quality plugs, like UAs, I think it makes mixing easier - easier to get the sound you want, easier to finish that mix, easier to do everything, because the plugs start from a higher quality place than the free ones.

    Anyhow, for me, my "go to" plugs (for prog/classic/pop rock audio recordings) are (1) UAD-1/2: Neve 88RS channel strip; 1176LN; Pultec Pro; Plate 140; RE-201; LA-2; Fairchild; Dimension D; Cambridge; 1073; (2) Amplitube 2/Ampeg VX; (3) Melodyne; (4) Har-Bal (not a plugin, but important to me in my mixdown/summing); (5) VC-64; (6) Channel Tools (love this new thing!); (7) Z3ta (as a plugin, not synth); (8) Guitar Rig 3LE.

    Great free ones from Voxengo and the Classic Series from whatever company that is, just Google "Classic Master Limiter."

    So many more...

    More stuff than you.  But you probably know how to use it.
    #18
    Phrauge
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 15:44:10 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Treefight
    Great free ones from Voxengo and the Classic Series from whatever company that is, just Google "Classic Master Limiter."


    Kjaerhus Audio.
    #19
    billruys
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 15:54:24 (permalink)
    I agree when it comes to a limiter. I think nearly all of the plug-ins bundled with Sonar Producer are world-class, but I'm afraid Boost 11 sounds like a train wreck to my ears. I absolutely love Sonar and all the other plug-ins. I particularly like what the new transient shaper is capable of in version 8.

    Bill Ruys
    Silicon Audio


    #20
    wmb
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 15:56:49 (permalink)
    I think the sonitus eq is alright and I would use it alot more but the gui is too clunky for me. I don't like the mixture of data fields, sliders and a dropdown for filter type. I know I can grab the nodes in the plot but often the q is not what I have in mind so I am forced to guess which way I am supposed to click/drag. Clunky.

    Sony Oxford eq on the other hand is a 5 band/2filter plugin with an effective interface. I am turning a dial or clicking around the edge to get it where I want. I know each band well enough to click the freq dial to where it needs to go. The interfaces are not all that different but I can fly with the oxford where I crawl with the sonitus. I would use the sonitus more often if it were easier to use. The downside of the Oxford is that it runs on my powercore cards and I have a limit on how many I can run.

    I like the stuff that looks like real gear when it's emulating real gear but I don't care for an artist rendering of a non-existent vintage/analog device (VC-64). I don't use it because it looks like a cartoon. The UAD stuff is like using a flight sim and in many cases I use the plug just like I would use the real thing. I don't care for their neve eq interfaces simply because the frequency ring works great when you have two hands but kind of sucks with one mouse pointer. I don't know how else the would have done it but that's just my opinion. The bottom line to most real world hardware is that a skilled industrial designer was probably involved in the control layout where GUI designers are just making things have a vibe so your eyes can help you hear in most cases.

    Those are my plugin musings for today.

    wm
    #21
    Geokauf
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/13 16:00:13 (permalink)
    What I have found useful is to delete those you never use.

    Hello,

    Or better yet, I download them all (all the freebies) but never install them. I have over 600 free plugs and only one (Superwave P8, a polysynth) is installed. In truth, I did install a few of those 600 through the years (like the Simuanalog plugs). And I do have a few paid-for instruments (GPO, JABB, Battery, B4 and Amplitube). I also have a couple of paid-for plugs: Waves Rennaisance Compressor and Autotune 4. With those plugs and instruments and the stuff that comes with 5.2, I have all the tools needed to create any kind of music/soundscape in-the-box.

    GK
    #22
    dgrm44
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/14 14:03:30 (permalink)
    Anyone like the Nomad or URS plugins?
    #23
    dgrm44
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/17 17:46:00 (permalink)
    bump
    #24
    Mr Blint
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/17 19:11:36 (permalink)
    The LP plugs are quite good for uncolored clean effects, the V64 is great. The old DSP reverb is way underrated. However, for EQ I go with the UAD Pultec for color or the Sonnox oxford for clean. I also like the UAD compressors. But I have to say, that producer out of the box certainly has everything you need to create pro sounding stuff.

    Art for Art's Sake
    Money for God's Sake
    #25
    AT
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/17 21:47:24 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: dgrm44

    Anyone like the Nomad or URS plugins?



    yes.

    http://soundcloud.com/rm101-1
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
    my girl makes the best cannolis
    when she stuffs them full of frijoles.
     
    #26
    Oaf_Topik
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/17 22:07:21 (permalink)
    Vintage Warmer. My favorite plug-in of all time.
    #27
    JavaMan
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/18 01:23:01 (permalink)
    +1 Voxengo Elephant
    #28
    spindlebox
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/18 02:04:46 (permalink)
    Studio Devil
    Peavey Revalver MKIII


     

     
    #29
    Legion
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    RE: Plugin Debate anyone? 2008/10/18 02:36:06 (permalink)
    Could I recommend you all check this thread out: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1391345

    Great plugins and very easy on the wallet as well since they are all free Even if you don't emmediatly think you need them you might as well try them and see if you like 'em.

    Sadly very reduced studio equipment as it is... ASUS G750J, 8 gb RAM, Win8, Roland Quad Capture.
    #30
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