Plugin manager not working in 8.53 after Splat install.

EDIT:
This is an edit of the OP.
It appears there is some confusion as to what I'm talking about so I thought I'd clarify:
Actually, The Plugin Manager works. However, any presets changed or created in The PM are not available within Sonar 8.53.
IOW, If I create a new PM preset and add say 10 plugs to it, save the preset, close (or not close) Sonar 8.53, Open Sonar, select the preset in Track or console view, Try to insert a plug in, there is nothing available. I will add that old directx plugs do appear just not VST.
 
End of Edit.
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Original post:
I recently rebuilt my PC from Windows up because I couldn’t think of what else to do.
8.53 plug-manager worked fine untill I installed Splat.
 
The problem at this point is that I can’t create any plugin presets or add any new plugs.
Well, They can be created in PlugMgr and the new plugs added, but, in a track or buss in Sonar 8.53, they are not available. 
 
I forgot to mention that, My 8.53 presets I created before splat install work.
 
Splat, of course, doesn’t have these issues.
 
I’ve done multiple resets, rescans, reboots and nothing helps.
 
I imagine uninstalling all Cakewalk and re-installing 8.53 would fix the issue.
But, I really am trying to like Splat. It’s difficult, but I’m trying.
 
Anyone have any ideas?
 
Thanks

Kind of looks that way PP. 
 
Question: In the utilities folder is pluginmanager.exe. Can anyone run this without opening Sonar?
I mean, where it works as intended. Mine runs but has no abilities beyond that.
 
edit
This question is for troubleshooting and reaching for answers. It is NOT how I use Plugin manager. I use it within Sonar.

The Plug-in Manager has arguments passed to it from inside SONAR. It has been that way for some time. Running it stand alone may not be a good idea.

pwalpwal
just a guess, but it sounds like (some of) the "Shared Utilities" stuff (like the vst scanner, plugin manager, etc) may no longer be backwards compatible?

It may sound that way but I doubt that is the case. Based on the OP there is not enough information to know for sure. Running the tools other than the way they are intended to be used may be part of the problem.

i'm not sure the op did that but it would certainly explain it

THambrecht
SPLAT comes with newer windows system libraries. May be they overwrite the old system files with newer ones in the windows system folders. Then its possible that some things from 8.53 are no longer working anymore.
I would try an re-install from Sonar 8.53. The installer will never overwrite the newer system files with the old ones. So SPLAT is not touched.

That looks hopeful TH. Thanks
I guess the best avenue with that approach though would be to remove all things Cakewalk and start with Splat and then 8.53. As, I imagine (newtons law) that uninstalling and removing registry entries for 8.53 would somehow affect Splat?? (that's a question:)
 
BTW, I've asked Cakewalk support about this. They referred me to Cakewalk support.

There seems to be evidence that plugin manager in different versions of Sonar installed on the same computer are somehow connected. However the 32-bit and 64-bit versions seem to work separately from one another. Does your problem apply to both 32-bit and 64-bit?

timidi
Question: In the utilities folder is pluginmanager.exe. Can anyone run this without opening Sonar?
I mean, where it works as intended. Mine runs but has no abilities beyond that.

I run it (Sonar 8.5.3 32-bit) using this:
 
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities\PluginManager.exe" /VSTInventoryRegKey "Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR Producer\Cakewalk VST"


I can also run it (Platinum 32-bit) using this:
 
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities\PluginManager.exe" /VSTInventoryRegKey "Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR\Cakewalk VST"
 
HTH,
Tom

I have Sonar producer 8 installed, but not 8.5.  The plug in manager comes up for both 32 and 64bit.

So, I rolled back splat to 2016.07 (22.7.0.41).
On an initial glance, seems to have fixed my plug-manager problems.
But, now I'm a year behind. hmm.
 
I just guessed on that version being that the next version mentioned "update plugin browser" or something.

Yes Kev, I mean 'layouts'. No, that's not what I'm trying to achieve. Thanks.
 
An update:
It has been confirmed to me by the infamous Mr. Wookie that he can replicate the problem.
"I can confirm, that although you can create you own plugin layouts in 8.5.3 you can not select them for use."
 
These are the instructions for replicating (if anyone's interested)
 -pretend that you have no PM layouts/presets in 8.5.3. so you need to make one to get to your plugs.
 -create a layout/preset in PM and put some plugs in it. Save it. Exit all.
 -Start 8.5.3. create audio track.
 -right click the fx bin in the audio track and select the new layout/preset you created.
 -right click again to pick a VST plugin
 -Are there any VST plugins available there?
No.
 
 

I did more testing and rollback'ing for SPLAT and have reached these conclusions:

• First, please note that all my testing was done only with 32-bit versions of both SPLAT and 8.5.3.
• The plug-in manager (PIM) is shared between SPLAT and 8.5.3.  Namely,  C:\Program Files (x86)\Cakewalk\Shared Utilities\PluginManager.exe
• The SPLAT update of 2017.01 (23.1.0.32) changed the PIM (to a modified date of 01/26/17).  This new version causes an incompatibility (as described above by timidi) with any new plugin layouts created in 8.5.3.  Older plugin layouts still work ok.
• Rolling SPLAT back to 2016.12 (22.12.0.12) changes the PIM to 12/04/16, which doesn't seem to have the problem.

(Aside: I wonder if perhaps SPLAT should start using its own version of PIM, so it won't affect 8.5.3?)

You're welcome.  And thanks to you for alerting us to this issue and persisting with it. 
 
It's kind of sad really (and scary) that updating SPLAT should break previous versions.

I like your idea of starting that new thread, too.

I looked inside the PGL files created with the actual version of Plugin-Manager and older files. It looks like the Plugin-Manager now stores the clsidPlugMD5 for VST plugins, but before it used the clsidPlug (as listed in the registry under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory).

ralf
I looked inside the PGL files created with the actual version of Plugin-Manager and older files. It looks like the Plugin-Manager now stores the clsidPlugMD5 for VST plugins, but before it used the clsidPlug (as listed in the registry under HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software\SONAR\Cakewalk VST X64\Inventory).

Good find. Thanks.
So, what I derive from this would be that install of Splat from 12/16 on would orphan the 8.53 PIM files? 
 
I'm guessing this would mean that Splat and 8.53 would then use separate isolated registry entries for their own plugin manager exe's.