Plugin upsampling in Sonar - my experience so far

Hi all,
 
I found the plugin upsampling feature a little confusing at first so I thought I would post what I've found so far in the hopes that a) it might help some people use this feature correctly, and b) I might learn more on the topic, too. If this is wrong or incomplete in any way, please let me know and I'll update the original post so it gets better over time.

A few basic considerations:

1) Upsampling plugins won't make it sound like you recorded at a higher sample rate
2) It might make your mixes sound better because some plugins sound better at higher sample rates, without the audio file size increase and disk performance hit of recording at a higher sample rate
3) Probably the biggest considerations when choosing between recording at a higher sample rate and just upsampling plugins are a) how your audio recording device sounds in each sample rate, b) what your PC is capable of, c) whether any of the soft synth instruments or plugins you use have inherent sample rate limitations that might come into play.

How Sonar implemented plugin upsampling:

Upsampling plugins in Sonar is done globally per plugin. So, for example, if you use two plugins in your mix, the Sonitus EQ and Compressor, you'll have to set each to upsample separately. But you don't have to set each instance of the plugin to do it. Just once for the EQ and once for the Compressor, and all Sonitus EQ and Compressor instances in any Sonar project you have open will be set to upsample IF you have upsampling turned on.

Setting up a project to utilize upsampling, step-by-step:

1) Review your plugins and synths and make sure any 32-bit plugins you are bridging in are set to load in jBridge. This will enable them to receive Sonar's upsampled audio, so the feature will be available. It is not available with the normal BitBridge. Once this is done, close any open projects and reopen them.
2) Review your plugins and synths and make sure you know which ones do/don't upsample already. There is no reason to have Sonar do extra work to upsample audio sent to plugins that already do it. This will hit your computer performance hard. Most UAD plugins upsample. Same with iZotope. I know Slate's Virtual Tape Machine does - not sure about their other plugins.
3) Open each plugin and synth in your mix (that you know doesn't already upsample) and click on the upper left corner. You'll see options to Restore, Move, Minimize, etc. The last two options should be Upsample on Render and Upsample on Playback. I tend to find I like to turn both of them on, because I have another option to toggle whether upsampling is turned on globally elsewhere.
4) Now, find the Sonar Control Bar (the menu at the top, find the Mix module that has the buttons to globally toggle Mute, Solo, bypass FX, etc.) There is a "2x" button there. This is what actually tells Sonar to turn upsampling on for all plugins that are configured to upsample. NOTE - the documentation on this is currently wrong. Click on "2x" so it highlights in blue turns ON upsampling. It does not bypass it as the documentation suggests. I've confirmed this with Cakewalk support.
5) Try comparing the sound with this turned on or off. I tend to find that the mids and highs feel a little smoother and less "bunched up" with upsampling turned on - like there is more room for everything to fit and it sounds more natural - but your mileage may vary.
6) You can then toggle upsampling on and off using the "2x" button, depending on what you want to hear and how your PC performs with it turned on. There isn't really a downside to leaving plugins set to use upsample, since you can just use the "2x" button to toggle it.
7) If you really want it on all the time but run into performance limits, try freezing tracks you feel are complete, while 2x is enabled (highlighted in blue.)
8) Be sure to check whether 2x is turned on (highlighted in blue) each time you choose to bounce content, and turn it on if desired.
9) Some plugins and synths don't operate well at higher sample rates. These may cause your project to crash. So far I have experienced this with Rapture (32-bit), and apparently the TTS synth is limited here, too.

Peace,

Tunes

You're right - the logic isn't very clear. With the global FX bypass, hovering over it says "Bypass all audio effects". This could be interpreted either way, but seems to be fairly clear that clicking on the button bypasses the FX. With upsampling it's "Enable/bypass plugin upsampling" - this is less clear about what having it highlighted or not actually means.

I really like the idea of a global menu that enables us to do it in one place. That would be awesome. Especially if it somehow referenced an online list of plugins that already upsample internally and noted this, greying out the option to have Sonar do it.

And yeah, I don't see any way to do this with the ProChannel - question for the bakers: do the ProChannel modules already upsample? Or are they not capable of doing it?

A truly AWESOME thread, well thought out postings, follow through and reporting in a positive and helpful manner...
 
How it should be done!
 
Thank you, tunekicker... I learned a lot, so did the bakers,  and looks like improvements are in the works!
 
Would love a global on/off but looks like it's better than it sounded in the initial post!
 
will set this up in my next session!

Now that I know that 2x on = upsampling on, I have tested it again. And there is one thing that I don't find good: it seems to be a project settings. I mean that when I choose to turn upsampling on, I have to save my project and this choice is not global, there is no upsampling in other projects. This choice should be global: if I think that upsampling is good and my computer is powerful enough, I want it to be on every project.
 
I will try to save the 2x in the file that I use as a template every time I start a project.

Also - and I'll update the original post to reflect this - upsampling can also be turned on for your softsynths. It's not just limited to audio FX. I'll be experimenting with this over the next few days as I work on some mixes.

Peace,

Tunes

That is my understanding, although I've been assuming that the option to render also affects internal track bouncing and freezing tracks, not just exports. Another thing to clarify with Cakewalk support.

I tend to turn both on for each plugin so I can just use the "2x" button to turn it on and off depending on needed performance. I figured that it was kind of a pain to touch each plugin and I didn't want to have to wait until bouncing to find out that my computer was hitting a wall due to performance, then go back to add "Upsample on Playback" to each plugin to avoid it later.

Peace,

Tunes

Whoa. Ninja level 1000 achieved, scook! That's awesome. I'd love to know more about what needs to be added. I'll dig in to my Aud.ini and see what I can see.

Good find with the Direct X plugins. I haven't used much in the way of Direct X in a long time, so I hadn't tested them.

I had my first crash earlier today, too. This was when trying to freeze a synth track with the synth set to upsample. Apparently the AAS Player synth is unhappy about the idea. So definitely a good idea to save often so you can backtrack if you run into a synth or plugin that isn't happy about receiving audio data that doesn't match the project's native sample rate. The experiment continues!

Peace,

Tunes

Thanks!

BTW for everyone - I don't recall issues with Rapture x64 yet, but the 32-bit version has given some weird behavior when upsampled. Something to double-check for each plugin!

So obviously a scientific test would require some very specific work. I'm not in a position to offer that here. Nor have I done any serious A/B with only a single plugin involved.

What I will say is that in my experience so far, with the songs I'm working on, and with the plugins I have, I think it sounds significantly better when I turn on plugin upsampling. Tighter dynamics, smoother sound, less "bunched up" in the high mids and highs.

Does this mean it will always sound better? Nope.

Do I know how it compares to recording at a higher sample rate to begin with? No.

Do I know how it compares to upsampling audio and working in a project with the higher sampling rate? No.

I'm just trying to get an album done and upsampling plugins appears to be a quick path to making it sound even better in this case. I have to admit I'm having a blast doing this, as I feel like this is breathing some new life into recordings that I started 8 years ago in a church basement. :-)

Thanks to the Bakers for making this possible. If nothing else it has been a great experiment.