Plug-ins on Sonar Bus Causing Audio Blowout!

 
I hope this title has caught your attention as I'm hoping to find someone who can help me figure out why this has been happening for the past year and longer. 
 
I'm running a RME UFX and its mixing software TotalMix. After working with a project, I inevitably create buses and send instruments, drums, vocs etc to them. I'll place a plug-in on the bus and sometimes it's okay - after holding my breath and turning my outputs down. Usually, continuing on in this fashion, I'll add one or 2/3  and I'll get this issue occurring. 
 
Sometimes I'll neglect to turn down the volume and I'll get this almighty loud distortion with the above image indicating some kind of audio 'blowout'. Sometimes it'll hint at it and it'll be okay and recover. Usually, Total FX stays like this and I'll get this low end clicking-like sound and no audio - CPU use not active as well. Sonar has not been completely killed though and I'm able to save the project, close it and re-open and it's all good again, until the next time. 
 
Today it occurred several times on buses - adding a WAVES plug-in, or a FabFilter...and it even happened once with a Cakewalk compressor...previously as I prefer to use the latter compressors/Eq's. Also today, I added the SoundRadix Surfer Eq on a track and presto, overload-city again. 
 
RME claims that it's not a driver issue as 'Neither Totalmix nor the driver interact with plugins or software internal busses'. So it can't be the problem right? I haven't talked to SR yet, but I have reached out to both WAVES and FF, both claiming no issues regarding this from their knowledge. So it goes around and around and I guess it comes back to something going on with Sonar in combination with these plug-ins but no-one seems to know what.
 
Anyone? - he asked one more time. 
 
Hope someone's got an idea. I'd send a support ticket but from what I've seen, I don't think I'd expect a response. On occasion, when Sonar has crashed, the 'send' to report never connects, so it's apparently a waste of time as well.
 
Thanks in advance.

Hi Rob, thanks for the response.
 
Okay, I usually work on projects which are a combination of soft synth instruments and audio...only both and not either.
 
Usually occurs with compressor-type plugins...but can include eq's and other types...esp WAVES various. I've noticed it a lot with various WAVE compressors, and FabFilter Eq's, Dessers and multiband. As mentioned, the Sound Radix Surer Eq contributed to one but in a track. Their Drum Leveler in the past has caused issues. The only common thing...all VST 3's, although VST 2's have cause this as well...just that I typically use the 3's. 
 
CPU use is typically very low and spread evenly across my 8 cores, with one being the lowest. Depending upon the project and how much I've got going on there, mixing is usually down with a full buffer on my RME.
 
I have never turned off the 64bit engine...mostly because I have this innate psychological conditioning that 64bit is better. lol. I have run the load balancing once before but it actually made CPU usage worse and haven't touched it since.
 
Only Output's Substance has caused me pops and clicks in Kontact. No issues with AD2. 

The symptom looks like some plugin is generating denormals due to an internal "crash" in the plugin. It can be hard to pin down such issues since it can occur randomly. When inserting plugins SONAR is streaming audio to them during this process so perhaps its a multithreading issue inside one of the plugins causing corrupted state.
If you can narrow it to which plugin causes it it would be easier to investigate potentially. Also check if turning off the audio engine before inserting the plugin avoids the problem.
PS: are you using sidechaining on the plugins in question?

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
The symptom looks like some plugin is generating denormals due to an internal "crash" in the plugin. It can be hard to pin down such issues since it can occur randomly. When inserting plugins SONAR is streaming audio to them during this process so perhaps its a multithreading issue inside one of the plugins causing corrupted state.
If you can narrow it to which plugin causes it it would be easier to investigate potentially. Also check if turning off the audio engine before inserting the plugin avoids the problem.
PS: are you using sidechaining on the plugins in question?

Hi Noel. 
 
I do use side-chaining on the Pro-MB at times and have been experimenting with sending bass to the new WAVE'S F6 EQ but only on a rare occasion does it cause this issue...but the former has caused it on occasion. I have found though that doing the 'ctrl click drag' to copy a plugin on a bus will create this issue more often than not. 
 
I have had quite a few issues with FabFilter's Pro-MB. Placing it on say a drum bus has caused it. Placing it on say a submix bus, can trigger it.
 
Placing the FF's Pro-DS on a vocal bus will trigger it on occasion...typically if I add another down the chain it will more than likely trigger it. 
 
The FF's Pro-C2 compressor has caused this issue in the past but I don't use it as much as the Pro-MB. 
 
Adding WAVE's dbx 160 Compressor/limiter has caused this issue quite a lot. 
 
Their SSL range of EQ's and Comp, don't seem to cause this issue.
 
As mentioned above, I added SoundRadix's Surfer EQ on a track yesterday and it caused the issue, but on a track this time. 
 
I have had this issue occur in the past when placing Sonar's CA (no?) compressor on a bus.
 
Typically, if any of these plug-ins are loaded and saved on a project, then re-loading the project does not seem to trigger this issue. It happens when loading a new plug-in in that session...as mentioned, saving and re-loading allows me to continue without issue. So I guess a work-around. 
 
I do however find this very disruptive to my work flow. I have a go turning off the audio engine as suggested and see if that helps. 
 
Thanks
 
 
 
 

Jesse G
Try adding one plug in at a time until the problem occurs, however, that may not give a true indication of the problem as an accumulation of plugins may affect the single plugin that's causing the problem.

thanks. I have experienced just adding one plugin into a bus and it has triggered this reaction. Yes it can be triggered if there are several plugins but not necessarily. 

I don't have an answer, but might have clues...
 
I experienced the same thing about a week ago. Track meters would move and the TV scrolled as if playing back, but the only sound heard was an occasional click. Despite the silence, SPAN at the end of the master bus chain was pegged in the red. Eventually, SONAR would crash with sonarplt.exe shown as the faulting module - not a plugin.
 
No changes had been made to the project. One plugin had just been updated (MSpectralDynamics) so it was my first suspect. However, bypassing it made no difference, nor did removing it from the project. Then I began muting and then removing each bus plugin. The problem persisted even after removing all plugins from all busses. I closed and restarted SONAR, and still had the same problem.
 
I then rebooted the computer, and after that the project would load and play normally. Two days later, the problem returned. Altogether it happened on 5 occasions on 5 separate days, but always intermittent. Then I noticed that each time it occurred after having just had Chrome open playing a YouTube video. Experiments showed that that combination had a 50-50 chance of triggering the symptom. 
 
As I was writing this post, I just now tried to duplicate the problem again. SONAR is open on the first monitor and YouTube on the second monitor. I can switch between them at will and there are no problems with audio. What's changed? Just one thing: I've since installed the 23.5 SONAR preview. 

bitflipper
Yikes! I spoke too soon. I've just rebooted my computer and started up SONAR. There was no sound other than a couple clicks on starting playback. The cursor moves, track meters show activity, but no sound.
 
This project has three busses: drums, reverb and master, no plugins on any of them ATM. The meters on all three are pegged in the red and the peak readout says +9dB. Should be ear-splitting, but there is no sound.
 
Even after stopping playback, the meters remain stuck at full scale and remain there until the bus is muted, then they immediately jump back up as soon as they are un-muted. Somehow, a huge signal is making it onto all three busses. Must be drums, right? It's the only group that hits all three busses. Nope, it's not the drums.
 
Next, I started muting individual tracks. Muting one particular track made the bus meters return to zero. Aha! An unruly synth! But although it's a synth, it's frozen. That makes no sense. Being frozen, the synth (Omnisphere) has been unloaded and it's just an audio track as far as SONAR is concerned. Effects, however, were not frozen - so it must be an effect.
 
Next, I deleted the plugins on that track (Roth-Air and Pro-Q2). After both were gone, the project began playing again. OK! I thought, I'm an ace troubleshooter...but to my dismay the project continued to behave properly even after I used CTL-Z to un-do the plugins' deletions. In the end I had effectively done nothing, yet the project was now magically working again. I love magic when it's Penn & Teller, but I hate magic when I'm troubleshooting.
 
I then closed the project and re-opened it, and now the project plays fine. Go figure. The YouTube connection was a red herring. It's not a plugin or a synthesizer. It's gotta be some kind of internal math error, but one that's intermittent, and math errors are usually not intermittent. The exception is denormals.
 
 
 
 

Internal math error ey? Damn, I should have pay more attention to math at school. haha.
I guess the thing with mine is that I can reproduce this issue 'fairly' consistently. Create a bus, add a compressor plug-in...might be okay. Copy that plugin to another bus and if it doesn't happen then, adding another compressor or dessor or whatever on a bus, will probably bring it on. I keep forgetting to try Noel's idea of turning of the audio engine before doing adding, so I'll make it a point to try that and report back. 
 
This has been happening for ages...well over a year on and off. I'm not always adding plugins on buses as some projects are already set up, so I don't need to add anything new...it's just when I do, it'll usually happen.
 
I watch quite a few tutes with people demonstrating these kinds of processes...adding plugin after plugin on buses etc. Maybe they don't show issues that occur during such demonstrations but there doesn't seem to be any issues for them doing so. 
 
I really hope I don't have to forever turn down my playback - or turn off the audio engine - each time I want to add a plugin on a bus.

I guess you've tried various buffer sizes? To make things stranger, I use a Fireface UCX and have most of the plugins you mention. I use them all the time and always have 64 bit DPE on.

I have a similar problem right now and using sidechaining on drums and synth parts. That might be worth a look at.
 

Are you sending the sidechain key as pre or post fader from the bus or tracks? This may be causing the overloading issues. Also you can use frequency dependant compression rather than external sidechaining.

This has bitten me now.
 
I am migrating to a 64 bit daw setup
A project that is freshly mixed on the 32 bit drive loads and plays great. Sonar 10 - 2017 version
The same project opened on the 64 bit drive patterns bitflipper's problem to a tee.
 
RME 9632 PCI Card.
 
Drum bus red lining, as 3 rack toms feeding it are also.
Press play, transport runs, meters dance, audio goes: tick - then silence then tick......
 
4 gb of ram. probably not enough now that the word length has doubled and we have some bit bridging happening.
I'm looking forward to gobs o' core anyway.
 
All other projects seem to play ok.

This has happened to me twice now over the past two weeks, after having disappeared of its own accord 5 months ago. Same symptoms: no audio, bus meters pegged. Both times, the problem went away after restarting SONAR.
 
Both times, the meters calmed down when I bypassed certain plugins. Unfortunately, it was a different plugin each time, although it has been ValhallaPlate more than thrice. If it is a denormal issue as Noel suggested, it makes sense that a reverb might be the trigger.

2 cents... yesterday I had this happen, I was reviewing 6 freshly recorded tracks. I tuned off the record button on the hot track and it went back to normal. I was thinking at the time that it was some type of feedback issues... but I can't see how that would happen. win10 Splat 2017 10
 
peace!