Popping

I've been posting to the Sonar Producer site, but I was directed here because it was thought that more people might visit here.
I've been noting lately that when I  record a simple passage, I get a popping sound when I play it back. Popping or crackling, or some combo. I was told to increase my buffers, and I did increase from 256 to  512. What I'm talking about is simply recording a previously recorded midi track, by soloing that (MIDI) track while recording to audio.
I am playing thru a Delta 66 sound card, which is at least 10 or 15 years old. I use a Dell deskktop, with an Intel I5 processor. It's just a few years old.
 
I'd hate to buy a new sound card, only to find that I still hear the popping. DOes anyone out there have any thoughts on what my problem could be? Do sound cards go bad? My setup is strictly for a hobby, and I sometimes make CD's of my music, though just to hand out to my friends. I want as clear a sound as possible, but am not looking for high end.
 
I guess I'm  asking 2 things: are there any other problems that could be causing my popping? and 2)if I  need another sound card, what are your suggestions? I am playing  thru a Mackie 14 channel mixer, so don't need a sound card box that has mike inputs or any other fancy features. I am also using a MIDIMAN 4x4 MIDIsport MIDI interface. I do have very good synths, so certainly don't want to compromise their sounds (Korg Triton, Yamaha Motif, Korg Kronos, Roland XP30 and Roland Integra-7).
 
Thanks for your time.
LNovik

I get a similar result with importing audio

LNovik . . . I'm also using the Delta 66 audio card with Sonar X3e, and never have the clicking or popping you describe. When tracking, I have my buffers at 128, then for mixing stage I put it up to 1024.
 
I also have midi recordings from hardware synths, where I eventually record the midi tracks to audio, with my sound card routed thru a Tascam mixer. This works well for me, and I get a very clear signal.
 
Check to make sure your MIDIMAN 4x4 and Delta 66 have the very latest drivers.
Have you tried recording the midi tracks to audio with the buffers up around 1024, if so, do the pops go away ?
What sample rate setting do you use on these projects ?
 
Do you have an internet WiFi active on your system ? That, or possibly other background services can interfere with
recording.
 
 

I'm not using old hardware and all drivers are up to date including video etc. Last night I inserted a piano softsynth and was just playing the keyboard controller and the pops were popping. Wasn't recording or playing anything back. I hope to figure this out.

Wasn't intentional. Symptoms seem the same. Sorry OP didn't mean to step on your thread.

I now did the DPCLAT test, after downloading the appropriate software. There was 1 abnormality, which went away after I got rid of the Alesis Vortex item from my Device Manager. However, that didn't stop the popping.
LNovik

OK, I'll try to answer all the questions. Noynekker: other people have suggested that I post my system specs, so I'll start the preliminaries to that process now. The problem is: I don't know what half the things represent in your list (the 2nd half,) so I'm not sure if I'll be including everything there is to note.
Perhaps you can tell me what you think is missing. I'll then try to post it in my system specs.
Sonar Producer 8.5, M-Audio Delta 66, Midisport 4x4, Intel i5 650 @ 3.2 gHz, 6.0GB RAM, 64 Bit OS.
I guess I could find other specs, such as the graphics card, etc, if you think that would be helpful.
 
As for my problem, I have now downloaded what looks to be the latest Windows M-Audio driver from the M-Audio Forum, and that did not make any difference.
 
I was able to make sure there was no clipping when I recorded. On Sonar, as I have said, when I was watching the MIDI track record to the audio track, there was no clipping, and I'd say it only went up about 7/8 of the way to the top (I know I"m not using the correct terms.) When I viewed the same process on my M-Audio Control Panel, I don't even think the input sound bars were going up 1/2 way up to the top. In any rate, there was no clipping--assuming clipping means the input was too hot and the meters were at max.
 
I've tried multiple instances of buffers, etc. For instance, now, in my M-Audio control panel, the buffer size is on 512. In Sonar, under options\Audio, I now have buffers in playback queue at 8, and buffer size at 23 msec (though I've tried many other variations as well.) On the next (Advanced) page, I have Playback buffer size output at 512. OF course, there are all these other fields, such as "enable read caching and enable write caching, which are both checked. There is also a Record buffer size output, which is at 256 and not editable. 
Lastly, I should add that as I was fiddling around, I just changed my M-Audio driver setting from Delta 66 1/2 to Delta 66 multi 1/2. When I  recorded with these parameters, 2 interesting things occurred. First, I was not able to get a very hot signal, similar to my problem when I was using the ASIO driver. It would only go up about 2/3 of the way toward the "hot" zone. However, I did NOT get any popping. WHen I re-recorded and cranked up the volume even more, though not enough to get even close to clipping, I then again heard the crackling.
 
I'm hoping that the more details I share, the more someone might be able to  figure this out. I'm of course, open to trying more setting variations. Perhaps, since Nohynekker has a similar soundcard, he could make some suggestions.
 
Looking back, about the only thing I haven't checked is "IRQ's. Unfortunately, though I have heard the term, I'm
not familiar with it. I don't see any tests for it.
 
 
Thanks again to everyone for their interest.
 
LNovik
 

Well, I didn't start with 8 buffers, but someone told me to increase my buffers--or, at least, that was my understanding. Originally, it was at 2 buffers. ANd yes, I DO hear the popping when using headphones. I haven't tried it any other way, as I am used to playing like this most of the time. I guess I could try to see if it does not occur when using my speakers, though, again, I didn't used to have this problem when using headphones. I will try it without the headphones, and then, with other headphones.
I guess I'll turn down the buffers to ?4. This is what I'm looking for: specific numbers for specific parameters.
Thanks.
LNovik

I was just reading a post on Gear slutz and apparently there is no W7 64 drivers for the Delta 66, correct me if wrong. But it seems that card is really hard to work with on a modern system.

Yes, those were the drivers I downloaded this AM.
I am also thinking that I may just have to get a new soundcard. I have seen many. I would think that I just need an updated version of the type of PCI type card I have now. I'm not sure I need that type, but I just don't need things like mike inputs, since they go into my mixer. I also don't care what company, as long as the reviews are favorable.
I would want a good one, but this is my hobby, not my job. Any suggestions?
I'm also not closed to hearing any more suggestions about how to fix my system with the card I have.
Thanks again.
LNovik

Buffers in playback queue is different from buffer size. Set it back to 2 and see (hear) what happens.

@LNovik, 
 
Let's back up a second, and get a handle on how things sound on what should be a reasonable set of settings:
 
Try: interface - Sample Rate 44.1 k or 48 k, ASIO Buffer Size of 128 
Sonar: Sample Rate of 44.1 k or 48 k (must match interface).  Record Bit Depth of 24 bits.
 
Try for a Total Roundtrip Latency in Sonar of about 10 milliseconds or a little less.
 
The above are reasonable for tracking/recording.
 
Also, make sure effects and such are not present, for purposes of testing.
 
And, you might want to make your playback and record MIDI buffers set to 500 instead of 250.
 
Lastly, is there any listed Firm Ware version for your audio interface?
 
Bob Bone
 
 

OK: first, quickly to biodiode: turning something off in Device manager sounded hopeful, since, as I have said, I already have an IRQ assigned to my sound card that apparently is shared with other application(s). However, I couldn't find anything called the Marvell disk controller, or any disk controller in device manager. Any any thoughts on what I could, at least, temporarily disable in device manager might be helpful.
 
Thank you, Bob Bone, for those specific rec's. (where rec = recommendations, not record)
Just to be clear: on the first part: Try: interface - Sample Rate 44.1 k or 48 k, ASIO Buffer Size of 128 
I did this, except that on the Soundcard module it says: ASIO/WDM Buffer size of 128. It had been higher, so I turned it down. HOwever, I did not change to ASIO (though I was using ASIO when I began to have this problem.)
I guess I could try tomorrow to change back again to ASIO, if that is what you were suggesting.
2)I did the next few steps on Sonar, though the lowest I could get on roundtrip latency was around 11 msec. I assumed that was fine.
3)Interestingly, when I got to the last part about increasing the playback and record MIDI buffers to about 500, that is something that was rec'ed a while ago. However, I was never able to increase the record buffers, which I had reported. However, what I found was that if I unchecked the "enable write caching" box just above this option, I was then able to increase the record buffer from 256 to 512.
Now, for the interesting part. I then recorded my approx 16 measure saxophone MIDI patch to audio. The first 2 times I listened to it, I did not hearing ANY popping. THis is better than I had done in the past week or 3. However, when again listening to the same passage, I would then hear the same popping as before scattered thru this short recording. I must say that in the places it occurred, it was just as bad as before, with 10 or 15 crackling sounds at a time. However, out of the 10 times I listened, there were still least about 4 times that were devoid of any significant amount of extraneous sounds. I guess I could try tomorrow with 1000 or 1024 buffers in the playback and record, if you think that would be practical.
Thanks again for your interest, time, and specific suggestions.
Larry 

Ah!, life is so complicated. Thanks for your response, CJ. On the first point, I would of course try to change the IRQ setting if I could However, after looking up some tutorials on IRQ's, it said that I can't really do that. All I can do is find out what is competing with it, and try to disable it. As I had said, they said that an answer might be found on the Motherboard Documentation file, though I have know idea where to look for that.
 
RE: the 2nd suggestion--just buying another freaken card--I must admit it becomes like a mystery or puzzle to be solved, so it's been an interesting process. However, I agree that it's taking a lot of my time--and that of many other generous forum contributors such as  yourself. In fact, earlier in this thread, I had asked for some suggestions for a new card. Thus, while it takes a lot of time to try to fix this old card, it would potentially take me hours to do the research to discover what new card to get. 
 
Thus, if you or anyone has a suggestion for a good card, I'd appreciate it. I'm not even sure if it needs to be a PCI card that fits into a slot, or a box. I do have a MIDI interface already. It's  kind of old--but it seems to be working OK. I'll post my setup again below. I don't need mic inputs into the card, since I do all of that with my mixer.
 
Thanks again for the suggestions.
Larry N
 
 

Just to follow up. I did end up buying the Focusrite 2i2 card. Though I still have some problem with connectivity with this device, when I do get it to work, I NO LONGER HEAR the Rice Crispee sounds of Crackles and Pops. My only problem is that my unit doesn't work when I turn on the computer. I have to manually remove the USB device from the computer, and then re-plug it in. It then works fine. I have a querry into the Focusrite support about this.
Thanks for all your input and support.
LNovik