Helpful ReplyPower strips as power switches: Bad?

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Treefight
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2009/01/10 00:41:03 (permalink)

Power strips as power switches: Bad?

I'm afraid of the answer, but I have to ask: is it bad to plug my MCU and Extenders all into one power strip/surge protector and use the switch on the strip to power the MCU and Extenders on and off all at once? Because it sure is easy!

Also, I do the same thing with my monitors and sub (Rokit 8s and 10sub)...

If it's bad I gotta know, but man, that's a lot of switches on the back of a lot of pieces of equipment to be switching on and off for each session.

It's not that I'm lazy, it's just that... Well, actually it IS that I'm lazy, who am I kidding.

So all you voltologists and ohmpires, tell me: am I ruining my gear/kit?

Something tells me I'm not the only one doing this (that something being that humans are inherently lazy, or at least that's what I tell myself. And occasionally my wife...).

Stuff.
#1
John
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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/10 00:56:36 (permalink)
I do.

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RockStringBender
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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/10 00:56:41 (permalink)
I also hope it's not a bad thing cuz I do it too. I power down my PC and shut the nearfield monitors and board off but the rest of the rack gear and vid monitors and FW breakout boxes get shutdown with the strip switch. I fact, 2 pieces of rackmount gear do not even have on-off switches so the next best thing for them is to simply unplug them!!!!! ECKkkkkk!!

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Lay In Wait
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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/10 01:46:30 (permalink)
Yep, I do it as well.

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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/10 01:50:49 (permalink)
Me too!

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Saxon1066
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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/10 02:52:17 (permalink)
I don't think it has ever caused me a problem in 7 years of using power strips to switch on/off all my gear. I did lose a channel on my Pacifica recently--but I had been turning it on/off using the switch on the preamp itself!
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SteveJL
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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/10 03:44:34 (permalink)
For computers or anything with a micro-processor, it is VERY bad, the hint for these is if the device has a "shutdown" process vs a straight rocker-type power switch as the main means of powering off. For everything else, it is a judgement call. Personally, I just use the switches on each device and switch the power bars off last, because it is the safest thing to do and my gear is worth the 30 seconds or so involved to do so. My rationale is that a power-bar can send a micro-spike or other electrical anomally that can damage delicate electronic components.

 
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jackn2mpu
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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/10 08:56:35 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: SteveJL

For computers or anything with a micro-processor, it is VERY bad, the hint for these is if the device has a "shutdown" process vs a straight rocker-type power switch as the main means of powering off. For everything else, it is a judgement call. Personally, I just use the switches on each device and switch the power bars off last, because it is the safest thing to do and my gear is worth the 30 seconds or so involved to do so. My rationale is that a power-bar can send a micro-spike or other electrical anomally that can damage delicate electronic components.

Any switch can send a spike no matter where it is if it isn't de-bounced. If you could look at the waveform put out when a switch is closed you would see a number of oscillations decreasing in amplitude. A simple de-bounce circuit (sometimes a cap and resistor, sometimes a purpose-built chip) can remedy that. Most power switches are NOT de-bounced.
For a computer, use the shut-down sequence in either Windows or Mac OS. Both OS's go through a set of processes when shutting down that unless allowed to follow-through to the end MAY mess-up the computer. After the computer has shutdown, then hit the main power switch on your strip(s). There is no need to turn off each piece of equipment by it's own power switch. Then when you go to start a new session, just hit the main switch on the power strip, wait for everything EXCEPT the computer to fully power-up, and THEN start the computer. This process will ensure that your computer will see all of the equipment hooked-up to it. Failure to do this process will more likely than not result in your daw computer not seeing any external drives or interfaces.
Why do I say what I do? I am a reluctantly retired EE formerly employed in the aerospace industry (communications satellites and their control electronics). Would like to go back to that as my day job.

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#8
bitflipper
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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/10 12:12:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby glennstanton 2017/09/17 22:31:05
Should not be a problem. I would avoid the ultra-cheap power strips you can get at Wal-Mart for $4, though.

Don't worry about arcing (spikes). It is true that most garden-variety power switches do this. However, it's not a problem with properly-designed power supplies in most equipment. Although it's not be a bad idea to power down your active monitors first if that's convenient, or at least turn the volume down before powering up or down.

I would not, however, plug my computer into the same power strip. Too easy to accidentally shut it down, and there is no particular advantage (e.g. grounding) to doing so. Here, I have everything BUT the computer and audio interface plugged into a rack-mounted power strip. The computer and audio interface are plugged into a UPS. Neither get turned off very often.





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RTGraham
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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/10 13:33:53 (permalink)
I do a combination; I have a couple of power conditioners, each with 11 devices or subsidiary power strips plugged into them; these get powered on first, independently. Any gear plugged into them (including power amp, which has its own time-delay power-on to avoid pops to the speakers) comes online, and any gear plugged into the power strips plugged into the conditioners comes online as well. Next are computer monitors, then a separate power strip for control-room monitor matrix and active monitors. Last is the computer itself. Power-down is the exact reverse order.

This makes sure, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, that everything gets powered on consistently, and that everything the computer expects to see is already there when it boots up. For a while I actually powered everything up and down individually in an attempt to be conscientious; but with so many synths, MIDI interfaces and other peripherals in the rack and elsewhere it was too easy to inadvertently leave something switched off, requiring a reboot.

EDIT:

I should also note that I have seen similar practices in "medium-large" but quite serious professional studios, like the personal studios of major artists (but run by experienced engineers and technicians); in the "big studios" (like Hit Factory in New York, when it existed, and other studios of that size and caliber) nothing ever powers down completely anyhow, except the room lighting.
post edited by RTGraham - 2009/01/10 13:38:52

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Jessie Sammler
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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/10 19:38:50 (permalink)
Great advice from Steve, Jack, Bit, and RT; I couldn't agree more.

In many products, the rocker power switch is simply a single-pole, single-throw interrupt switch between the power cord and the first electrical component connected to the black wire (hot lead) inside the chassis. Electrically, there is almost zero difference between throwing this switch and throwing a switch on a power strip upstream. If anything, the power strip method would be even more gentle because you have the resistance and capacitance of the power cord to help buffer any spikes that are created.

If there is no way to turn a product off aside from unplugging it, I think a power strip would be preferable to yanking the power cord, because you leave the neutral wire (and ground, in the case of a three-prong device) connected, which seems less disruptive than pulling them all at the same time. The ground prong, in particular, is used for safety and as a ground reference, so keeping that intact seems like a good idea.
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Guitarhacker
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RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2009/01/11 15:34:54 (permalink)
I do it....

I wired a bunch of 4x4 boxes with duplex outlets..(normal home style outlets) and had them all powered on and off by a switch.... I knew I was planning a studio and lots of gear that needed to be turned on & off.

The only exception is of course, the computer. Using a surge suppressor bar is a really good idea... since there are always surges coming in to the equipment by way of the power line.....

yeah... use surge suppressors.... good ones.

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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/09/11 07:20:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Steev 2017/09/12 08:06:01
I had used power strip for many years and haven't found any power issues, though I'm not sure whether it is safe. I just change another power strip , it is a desktop one from bestek. I love it, not because it has well-organized multiple outlets and superior surge protection, but also the bestek desktop power strip has independent switches to let you control the each AC outlets easily. There also some other power strips that each outlet is controllable by a single switch. That is a good way to save time and energy. If you have such concern, you can try a power strip with independent switches. 
#13
Steev
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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/09/11 14:32:03 (permalink)
A quick and easy way to see if using your power strip will cause damage to your equipment by turning everything on at once is to hook up a digital volt and amp meters to the outlet the power strip is plugged into to measure and get visual feed back of the draw and surge caused by powering up multiple pieces of gear at once.
 If your voltage dips and or amperage spikes above the power strip's rating upon power up, even though the PS's circuit braker may not pop, is hard on all the equipment plugged into it as each piece struggles to suck up the necessary supply of power it needs thru a "straw too small to handle the shock instantaneous volume of wattage" required to power up everything at once 
 Hear any pops, clicks, or crackles during power up or shutting down? That's the sound of virtually kicking capacitors square in their ball sacks, and while they can typically handle years of this, they still do in fact ever so slowly die a premature death while slowly, but surely ever so subtly building up, adding noise, distortion, and slowly but absolutely degrading over all sound quality over time.
 It typically builds up and happens so slowly over time it's hardly noticeable until it is, at which point is typically too late as damage cause by weakened and leaky capacitors takes their toll on other circuit board components (slowly being starved to death) and struggling internal component power supplies.
 Not to even mention the damage it does to your "Mojo" or "groove" which has a bad effect on the over all quality of your work and full dead on accuracy mixing potential, as in....
 Accurately and critically getting "Out" of your tracking sessions as what you put "In" to them..
 And THAT my fellow CakeHeads, is why after so many decades of earnestly trying my best to perfect my crafts and skills, I settled happily and firmly confidently into SONAR Platinum and Focusrite.
 Because as far as I'm concerned, when I'm recording and mixing music "Sound is Everything" and to me my studio is a very high performance vehicle that I must make sure has enough gas and octane to get me from start to finish with little to NO issues with maximum efficiency.
 You wouldn't expect your car to run good on dirty gas, why would you expect your recording rig to run good on dirty electrical power?
 
 If you can't seem to fully grasp of understand how important this, just ask any guitarist who just had his vintage Fender amp recapped, or even someone who replaced the caps in the built in power amp of their near field studio monitors who are typically nothing short of SHOCKED by the difference of noticing the over all bump in clarity or what they've been missing!
 Nor does it take a whole lot of critical listening to realize how much noise you "DON'T" hear any more by replacing a cheap power strip with a prograde power conditioner, and or notice a difference in performance and reliability of each piece of equipment you plug into it.
 
 Living and recording in this rather charming 80+ year old house mostly wired with old wiring, I'm a HUGE fan of power conditioning power strips for studio, amp, and instrument equipment, all running off of any one of 3 Furman power conditioning units that I power up sequentially a few seconds at a time, and 2 APC UPS (uninterrupted power supplies.) for computer/workstation/ network, printer, and such.
Not only do they protect the equipment from surges and spikes, they isolate and defeat hum and stray RF noise (radio freqs) transmitted thru cheap and dirty A/C power that flows freely thru cheap power strips, even from one amp or unit to the next and or thru the many cables and connectors hooked up in the studio.
 
 Can't locate that occasional intermittent hum that's been driving you crazy for God only knows how long?
 Well you could (may) identify and isolate it by unplugging the refrigerator, or the microwave oven in the kitchen, the heating and or air conditioning unit(s), or perhaps it's just a dimmer switch used for lighting or ceiling fan or window fan anywhere in any room of the house or apartment your in.
 Or get power conditioning and a UPS and forget about these annoyances even happen and or ever existed, and have a nice day!

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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/09/11 16:33:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Steev 2017/09/12 07:56:32
I have everything going to a Furman line conditioner from there a few other basic power bars mounted on the wall behind things and on on the desk to use when needed. 
And my Power amp has a delay so that solves that but for sure first thing I do before powering down is turn the master volume on my interface off. 
Of course the computer is last on and first off using the power button for on and OS for off. 

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Jeff Evans
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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/09/11 22:08:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Steev 2017/09/12 07:56:44
There is a simple solution.  Use a power board with switches for each outlet.  I have my computers running on 24/7 power independent of this  (but still coming from a master computer power switch so that I can turn them all off if I need to) 
 
I have got my entire studio on 4 circuits on the power board.  Switch them on sequentially.  One at a time.  That way you avoid any power surges.  I have never had an issue doing it this way.  Your equipment will not mind having their power switches permanently on and being remotely switched either.  If you are smart you can arrange the 4 circuits in such a way as that if you only need to do certain jobs then you only need to switch on one or two circuits.  For a full job then in my case I need all four.
 
The way I have set up the 4 circuits is:
 
1 All lights 
2 Basic setup. e.g. mixer, general power circuits that need to be on in order to hear audio. My audio interface is inside my computer but if yours is external this is the circuit it should go to. 
3 Synth rack and keyboards
4 Powered monitors
 
So if I only need to edit some audio (in the daytime) then I only need circuits 2 and 4.  On headphones circuit 2 only. 
 
Zone your studio into power zones according to the types of jobs you do.  That way you can leave some circuits off and save power if you are only doing certain things.
 
Having the powered monitors on my circuit 4 also works well because I can switch on the studio on the order 1 to 4 but turning off I go 4 to 1. e.g. monitors off first. 
 
From the switching power board obviously you will have other power boards connected to each circuit in order to be able to feed the rest of your gear.
 
When I go away I switch everything off  (computers as well)  but also remove the power plug from the wall to be on the safe side.  My whole studio is connected to one wall socket.  You avoid earth loops this way. e.g. with everything I own in the studio on, the total power draw in my case is 800 watts. 
 
It is not a bad idea to get a hold of a power meter  (I had an electrician next door so I used his)  and measure how much power each section draws.  It can be quite revealing.  It is also worth going right through your whole house and test every appliance as well.  That is also very revealing. e.g. my coffee machine draws 1000 watts when it is heating up etc.  I used to leave this on a lot but don't now!

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glennstanton
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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/09/17 22:35:19 (permalink)
there are also some power distribution units that can be sequenced - so you can fire up your devices in order to avoid pops etc. some of my power amps have that option as well. Jeff Evans' approach is basically a manual approach which is similar to how I manage the power up and down options. 

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#17
Joe_A
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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/09/17 23:56:57 (permalink)
Like JackN2 says, the power strip switches will likely bounce which is bad, but using higher up Furman or other quality strips for master on/off not bad.

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Jeff Evans
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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/09/18 00:23:07 (permalink)
I have been using power strip switches for 30 years and they have never gone bad so I say they are fine. Just make sure the strip is decent quality and the switches are as well.

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#19
Joe_A
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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/09/18 10:50:08 (permalink)
This quote from above is key "Just make sure the strip is decent quality and the switches are as well."
Which means the obvious, the good ones aren't bad....hehehe.
The cheapest also have MOVs across L1, Gnd, Neutral; so the mfg can say technically "with lightning and surge protection with xxx joules. These can be super cheap and cause power hum as they age and the surfaces of the inside of the discs become pitted and there is a tiny bit of continuous contact between the two discs. *Which are supposed to arc over evenly in an over voltage situation.
Here again the better, like Furman, others, use better of this MOV and SAD technology for TVSS protection, and if any failures trip the small ckt brkr on it. Cheap ones, like 1.99 strips, have caught on fire in the past.

I wouldn't imagine anyone here investing in audio interfaces then use a 1.99 item. There are many cases of power hum being eliminated or greatly reduced by using quality power distribution.

Like anything, common sense prevails.

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#20
fireberd
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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/09/18 12:22:04 (permalink)
I like to err on the side of caution.  My equipment rack has a Furman rack mount strip that I power the rack equipment from.  The Furman is powered by a UPS system.  Even with that, I power on each device in the rack individually.  

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#21
Cactus Music
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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/09/18 14:22:50 (permalink)
I also turn of any Phantom Power when I've finished using any mikes or DI that used it. Studio and Live. 
As well as I often turn down any mixer faders not in use etc. I really don't wish to blow up my NSM 10's just yet. 
 
Jeff is this what your using, I have 2 of them I use for things I don't use much.
 


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#22
Mena
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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/11/27 02:57:30 (permalink)
Do you turn off the plugged MCU, extenders, and other devices before you switch off the power strip? If not, you'd better not do like that. but devices can be gradually damaged if you control devices only the power strip switch for a long time. How much it can damage depends on the quality of your device, including the quality of power strip. If you want to make it easy to control devices, you can use remote controller. The best way to protect your devices is to turn off each device first.  then switch off the power strip. The appliance switches are commonly built-in protection board that can guard against instantaneous high current like a surge protector. if you forget to switch off your surge protector, your devices can also save themselves when there is power failure. You can also get a power strip with independent switches that allow you to control each device individually. 
#23
Jesse G
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Re: RE: Power strips as power switches: Bad? 2017/12/01 21:28:02 (permalink)
You can use the surge protector to power off anything, however, you MUST power off the computer by first clicking Start > Power > shut down.  You don't want to damage your hard drive by abruptly shutting down the computer by using the surge protector.

Peace,
Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
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