Voda La Void
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Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Does anyone use either of these interfaces for USB 2.0 audio recording in SONAR? What are your thoughts on quality and performance? How about Latency?
I searched through forum history but didn't really find a lot of current threads on these, particularly their quality and performance. I'm actually a little concerned the Presonus will suffer latency and audio popping/crackling issues from what I read. I don't want to get too obsessive over specs but I also don't want to buy complete junk.
This will be used exclusively for a mic'd acoustic drum kit. I would like to add another for guitar, bass, vocals and all that.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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TheMaartian
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/16 21:43:40
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2017/11/17 15:07:30
I have a 44 VSL...in the closet. The mic pres are pretty good, but PreSonus dropped support for the VSL (mixer) component. The original drivers weren't super stable under Win7 and useless for me under Win10. I can't speak about the stability of the current UC drivers. I do recall from a couple of years ago (when I got banned from the PreSonus user forum for one too many nice complaints about their complete lack of interest in supporting current owners) that the 1818 VSL was all kinds of problematic, and I still see the occasional post on their forum (yeah, I still read it; I have S1v3 and Notion 6) about issues with it.
I just don't trust PreSonus to support their hardware for very long. They seem so marketing driven that my guess is the devs just get overwhelmed. Got a Studio 192? Got problems? Too f'ing bad, the new Quantum is out!
By the time I get a PC with a supported, stable Thunderbolt port on it, the Quantum will be a doorstop.
YMMV.
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TheMaartian
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/16 21:50:59
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Take a look at the Tascam US-16x08 if you need more than 8 mic pres. One neat feature is if you run it with no USB connection, it defaults to 8 mic pres (XLR In 1-8 to Line Out 1-8). You could then feed those eight Line Outs to Line In 9-16 on a second US-16x08 connected via USB to your DAW. Also note that Line In 9 & 10 are on the front panel and are switchable between Line and Instrument levels. I use Line In 9 for guitar and Line In 10 for bass. http://tascam.com/product/us-16x08/overview/ Sits at a slight angle on a desk. Comes with rack mount ears. Only one headphone out.
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fireberd
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/16 23:53:18
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I've had two Focusrite units, a Saffire Pro 40 and currently by backup interface is a 6i6 2nd gen. Focusrite is still supporting the Saffire Pro 40 that came out in the Vista days.
I've tried several Presonus units, 3 different Firewire units and they all had a problem, new (and were returned). Last year when I was upgrading I tried the Studio 192 unit. Latency with their "automatic" setup was over 35Ms total, manually I got it down to around 6 ms for recording. However, the 192 only lasted one day. On the second day I powered it on, did some testing and tried to power it off but it would not power off with the power switch. It went back and I bought my current unit, an MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid.
"GCSG Productions" Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors, Ozone 5, Studio One 4.1 ISRC Registered Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
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Voda La Void
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/17 14:00:33
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TheMaartian
I have a 44 VSL...in the closet. The mic pres are pretty good, but PreSonus dropped support for the VSL (mixer) component. The original drivers weren't super stable under Win7 and useless for me under Win10. I can't speak about the stability of the current UC drivers. I do recall from a couple of years ago (when I got banned from the PreSonus user forum for one too many nice complaints about their complete lack of interest in supporting current owners) that the 1818 VSL was all kinds of problematic, and I still see the occasional post on their forum (yeah, I still read it; I have S1v3 and Notion 6) about issues with it.
I just don't trust PreSonus to support their hardware for very long. They seem so marketing driven that my guess is the devs just get overwhelmed. Got a Studio 192? Got problems? Too f'ing bad, the new Quantum is out!
By the time I get a PC with a supported, stable Thunderbolt port on it, the Quantum will be a doorstop.
YMMV.
Thanks, I was afraid of that. And I'm giving up on Thunderbolt. Too much trouble - and money - just to bring down latency, when it can be resolved to basically 0 with monitoring at the interface. Not something I'm used to doing, but everyone seems to be comfortable with that solution from what I'm reading. That Tascam US-16x08 does look pretty sweet, and a very nice price, thanks for the tip. I'm trying to resolve how I would deal with still retaining a couple of line level inputs for electric guitar and bass (Palmer DI or something similar). This unit is so close, but I'm not sure it can solve everything. The focusrite 18i20 looks like the best bet at the moment. fireberd
I've had two Focusrite units, a Saffire Pro 40 and currently by backup interface is a 6i6 2nd gen. Focusrite is still supporting the Saffire Pro 40 that came out in the Vista days.
I've tried several Presonus units, 3 different Firewire units and they all had a problem, new (and were returned). Last year when I was upgrading I tried the Studio 192 unit. Latency with their "automatic" setup was over 35Ms total, manually I got it down to around 6 ms for recording. However, the 192 only lasted one day. On the second day I powered it on, did some testing and tried to power it off but it would not power off with the power switch. It went back and I bought my current unit, an MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid.
Ugh...Presonus is definitely out, for me. That MOTU unit sure is nice. A little out of my range since I would need two of them, but a boy can dream... Let me ask you..how do you think your Focusrite mic-pre's compare to the MOTU mic-pre's?
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fireberd
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/17 14:45:55
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They are very similar. I've only tested the Focusrite 6i6 to make sure its setup correctly and will work if I need it, but the little testing I did I didn't really hear any difference in the recorded audio (my Pedal steel guitar direct).
"GCSG Productions" Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors, Ozone 5, Studio One 4.1 ISRC Registered Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
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Starise
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/17 15:10:54
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I don't doubt that some have had problems with Presonus interfaces. I must have been one of the lucky ones. I bought a Firestudio Tube over 5 years ago. It's the one with real tubes in the first two channels. Not to be confused with the Firestudio which doesn't have tubes.I don't know how much the tubes really help. If you drive the volume up they can add some coloration. Being the spendthrift I am I bought it as B stock. When I received it one of the channels had static in it. Since I could send it out for repair under the same warranty as new, I did. They had it for a few days and sent it back. "Knock on wood", I can't seem to kill it. Been over 5 years and it's still kicking. TheMaartian
I have a 44 VSL...in the closet. The mic pres are pretty good, but PreSonus dropped support for the VSL (mixer) component. The original drivers weren't super stable under Win7 and useless for me under Win10. I can't speak about the stability of the current UC drivers. I do recall from a couple of years ago (when I got banned from the PreSonus user forum for one too many nice complaints about their complete lack of interest in supporting current owners) that the 1818 VSL was all kinds of problematic, and I still see the occasional post on their forum (yeah, I still read it; I have S1v3 and Notion 6) about issues with it.
I just don't trust PreSonus to support their hardware for very long. They seem so marketing driven that my guess is the devs just get overwhelmed. Got a Studio 192? Got problems? Too f'ing bad, the new Quantum is out!
By the time I get a PC with a supported, stable Thunderbolt port on it, the Quantum will be a doorstop.
YMMV.
I'm sorry you had that kind of an experience. I hope Presonus will continue to support their new stuff. Like everyone else I guess they made a lemon here and there. They have made some great stuff too. I have a similar opinion of Line 6, or what was once Line 6. I'm not sure what they are now.
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JonD
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/18 00:57:11
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Starise
I don't doubt that some have had problems with Presonus interfaces. I must have been one of the lucky ones. I bought a Firestudio Tube over 5 years ago...
The Firestudio line are Firewire. IIRC, the vast majority of the driver issues were with the VSL line (USB).
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whodatboi
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/19 21:29:45
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fireberd
I've had two Focusrite units, a Saffire Pro 40 and currently by backup interface is a 6i6 2nd gen. Focusrite is still supporting the Saffire Pro 40 that came out in the Vista days.
I've tried several Presonus units, 3 different Firewire units and they all had a problem, new (and were returned). Last year when I was upgrading I tried the Studio 192 unit. Latency with their "automatic" setup was over 35Ms total, manually I got it down to around 6 ms for recording. However, the 192 only lasted one day. On the second day I powered it on, did some testing and tried to power it off but it would not power off with the power switch. It went back and I bought my current unit, an MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid.
I had the exact opposite experience. I went through THREE of the MOTU 828mk2's, they kept burning some transistor that would literally start to melt a part of the IC board. I eventually gave up on getting replacements because I had to keep paying for shipping and waiting forever. I ended up with a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, and I'm completely satisfied. It's been supported through countless versions of OSX (now Mac OS, still supported). The preamps are good enough if I need more than I have external preamps, and the converters are above average. Tons of inputs and outputs, reasonable price. I did love my MOTU and even was becoming brand loyal to them, and recognize it was likely just that one run of 828mk2's with the problem. They have such a cool name, Mark of the Unicorn, that I want to love them that much more.
My Current Signal Chain: Mac Pro 6,1 - Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 - FMR RNP & RNC - OWC Mercury Rack Pro - Rode NTK Check out my work at LedgerNote
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/19 22:32:07
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I have got a Scarlett 18i20 which I use on another machine and it is excellent. It all works perfectly, sounds great and can also provide blistering fast latency when needed as well.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Voda La Void
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/20 18:57:30
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So, based on more research and the replies I'm seeing here, I'm feeling pretty good about the Focusrite 18i20.
The only thing mucking this up now...is that Tascam US-16x08 mentioned by TheMaartian. I'll be damned if that's not the perfect I/O solution for everything, in my case. I currently have a Mackie Onyx 1620 mixer with 8 mic pre's, and I could send those analog into the 8 line-ins of the Tascam from the line-outs of the Mackie - a kind of zero latency mic pre expansion.
So, for 300 bucks I could have 16 XLR Mic-pre's with all 16 channels through one interface, USB 2. Not using ADAT means I'm not restricted to 48KHz on the expansion part, too. If I go with Focusrite 18i20, I would have to buy another 8 mic pre box, like the Focusrite Octo, and then hook it up via ADAT, creating the sample rate limitation and all around bummerness...
I actually really like the Tascam US-16x08 solution, but it's Tascam...not Focusrite. I have never ever been a fan of Tascam. I would hate to sacrifice quality mic-pre's for the I/O advantage. But man...I could keep using my Mackie Onyx...
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TheMaartian
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/20 20:43:49
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Tascam started developing their drivers in-house with the US-NxN series. There have been some USB3 issues on some PCs with the US-20x20, but the other three have been solid. And I got mine on a SDotD at MF for $200! Black Friday prices are here, so I hope you can find a good price for whatever you wind up with.
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/20 20:57:29
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Tascam still only has 8 XLR inputs so not sure what the big deal is there in terms of inputs. The Scarlett has the ADAT interface which I did not mention before so with something like the (very affordable) Behringer ADA8200 (which now has MIDAS Mic Pres!) it can be expanded rather easily. (I would probably rate the Midas Mic Pres in the Behringer better than the Tascam Mic Pres too)
Sampling rates can be at 44.1 and 48K of course with the ADAT interface and there really is no issue recording at either of these rates either. (bit depth is more important remember) Higher sampling rates can be used with the Scarlett too using the ADAT interface but you only get 4 extra inputs at 96K though.
Focusrite has a bit of a heritage with its Mic Pres so they may be a little better. They are super nice on the Clarret interfaces though for sure. All I know is the Scarlett is very solid for me. Very easy to monitor input levels too. Two headphone outs which can be used. Also Focusrite Control is excellent and can do all manner of routing etc..
And also if you do get a Focusrite product they give away a whole lot of amazing plug-ins and stuff. Like the XLN Audio Grand piano for free. Plus some Red plugins which are also very nice. At least once month they give away something very nice in terms of plug-ins.
Drivers are super solid and always very up to date. They have even released new Mac drivers for High Sierra. One of the first to do it. The drivers are part of Focusrite Control so you only have to update that and it is all done.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Voda La Void
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/20 21:33:15
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Jeff Evans
Tascam still only has 8 XLR inputs so not sure what the big deal is there in terms of inputs. The Scarlett has the ADAT interface which I did not mention before so with something like the (very affordable) Behringer ADA8200 (which now has MIDAS Mic Pres!) it can be expanded rather easily. (I would probably rate the Midas Mic Pres in the Behringer better than the Tascam Mic Pres too)
Tascam has 8 more TRS line level inputs on the back, Focusrite does not. It's just very tempting because it super simplifies the set up - simply going analog from any outboard mic-pres. In my case, I have 8 channels of mic-pre's already that I could just send to those TRS inputs. And I'm done. I only record at 48kHz anyways, but I thought it might be nice to have the option to go to 96 someday. Your statement on the Behringer ADA8200 brings up a nagging concern concerning latency and how a DAW deals with it. If the latency on the Focusrite is, say 5 ms, for instance. And the latency on the Behringer ADA8200 was 10 ms. Then they are connected via ADAT, how does the DAW deal with some of the inputs being a 5 ms delay while others are 10 ms (assuming the ADAT link has zero latency)? Essentially, we have two different sets of AD conversion providing a different amount of time to do their job - so how does the DAW deal with that? I have to admit that has been hanging me up a bit. I would rather go with Focusrite and use ADAT to expand, but I don't want to start fighting with latency disparities between these units. I'm trying to imagine how I monitor at the interface for zero latency monitoring during recording when I've got drum audio coming in from both units. (It takes about 10 inputs for live drum recording). You're making a great case for the Focusrite, by the way.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/20 21:49:38
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Yes the extra Line ins on the Tascam could be handy for sure. RME do that too. How many extra line inputs are there though?
Latency on the Scarlett is way under 5mS for me. It is more a function of the software. I can get very fast latency on the Scarlett with Studio One. The ADAT latency is the same for me as the Scarlett latency. They are not different. Not sure why it would be different.
I have recorded a band live (in the studio) through Scarlett (with the ADA8200 connected as well) and had a PA hooked up to a buss (in my software) so I could put anyone in the PA by simply creating a send and sending that to the PA buss. e.g. software monitoring. There was no perceived latency of any kind. (Although I don't use any plugins while tracking though) with either Scarlett or ADAT inputs.
Also the Scarlett can be used as a mixer live. You connect it to a computer to it and create a preset that mixes all the XLR's into stereo and sends to outputs 1-2 say. Then live, no computer is required at all. Scarlett can be used as a 8 into 2 mixer. Also Scarlett can be set to send all its 8 XLR Mic inputs out to the ADAT outputs as well. (instead of using the USB connection) i.e. it can be setup to be the same as the Behringer ADA8200 i.e. used as an extra 8 inputs over ADAT for another interface you may have connected. Can the Tascam do that? I am not sure if it can but that is one cool feature.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Voda La Void
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/20 21:59:37
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Jeff Evans
The ADAT latency is the same for me as the Scarlett latency. They are not different. Not sure why it would be different.
It may just be something I don't understand. Device A requires 3 ms to convert audio into digital. Device B requires 6 ms to convert audio into digital. Device B connected via ADAT to Device A which is connected to DAW via USB 2. The DAW receives all digital over the USB 2 connection to Device A. Input 1 of Device B would have a 6 ms delay since that device takes that much time to process the signal. Input 1 of Device A would have a 3 ms delay, same reason. How does the DAW know when to adjust the resulting audio 6 ms or 3 ms? Does the DAW test each input to notice the latency is different? If both boxes have different latency, there must be something to correct or deal with that when they share the same USB pipe to the DAW.
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/20 22:34:59
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I think with straight A to D conversion the latency involved is very low. For example I have a Yamaha digital mixer and the input to output latency is quoted like something under 1mS. And that is from analog in to analog out as well. Which is the worst case scenario.
So I am assuming that all the actual A to D conversion latency is well under the system latency. That is why I think the conversion latency for both the Scarlett and the ADAT interface are probably very low and very similar. But once that signal heads towards your DAW then you have the input and output latency of the system being added and it will most often be higher than the conversion latency.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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raisindot
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Re: Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL and Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
2017/11/21 17:45:11
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I owned the 1818 VSL for awhile. The pre-amps were excellent, but it always had terrible USB conflict problems. If I had more than one USB device hooked up to my PC at least 50% of time it would start up with a huge feedback noise that could only be resolved if I unplugged other USB devices. I also really disliked its mixing software, which was difficult for me to understand.
I've since upgraded to two generations of the Focusrite 18i8. Never had a problem with Gen 1, although you really had to crank the pots to get a loud signal. Second gen is definitely higher quality amps, but I had problems with dropouts playing VSTs and playing back Sonar files with large numbers of audio tracks. I thought my PC might be a bit outdated so i upgraded to a current gen I-7 with an SSD and 16mb RAM. Since I did it's been working perfectly and I think I'll keep it.
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