Helpful ReplyPro-MB, Day One

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bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/27 19:20:32 (permalink)
Ugh. Exploded water pipes. Been there a couple of times. No, not fun, not at all. You have my sympathy.
 
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/27 19:59:07 (permalink)
Day Three: today I feel like quite the Pro-MB expert, having come a long way since Saturday's initial plunge. Yeh, it's probably a false confidence based on what I think I know versus the vast don't-know-I-don't-know universe.
 
But the plugin is at least doing my bidding - and very well - in at least one scenario: vocal busses. It's like finishing sandpaper: smooths out all the little anomalies that would otherwise say "recorded in some guy's garage on a cheap mike". Truly a turd-polisher, and I mean that in a good way.
 
OTOH, I tried it on a honky saxophone with somewhat less-impressive results. Turned it into a kazoo. I'm still workin' on that one...
 
I'm finding that you can use pretty extreme settings without obvious pumping or other weirdness. My usual instinct is to be conservative with compressors and equalizers, but Pro-MB can be given plenty of latitude and its internal smarts will reign everything in. You have to work at it to do something really dumb (but trust me, it ain't impossible).
 
It's actually fairly easy to tell when I've gone too far with the Range control, which is the primary tweak. Like when I used it for de-essing and the "S"s completely disappeared. Clearly, too far. Knocked a few decibels off the Range and the "S"s came back in just the right amount. Tip: stay away from 48dB/octave slopes except for surgical limiting. 24 works quite well, while 6 or 12 will give you great transparency.
 
Next up: I'm gonna try it on the master bus and see what trouble I can get into.
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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rtucker55
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/27 22:36:50 (permalink)
Thanks for the updates bit, the tips are very helpful. Looking forward to your ventures with it on the master bus.

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#33
bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/28 13:51:36 (permalink)
Everything's on hold now {sob!}, as my 9-year-old audio interface has suddenly given up the ghost.
 
My DAW is now just a DW, no A.
 
So today's project is taking the interface apart and hopefully implementing a repair. "Hopefully", because I have no schematics or service manual, just a flashlight, a magnifying glass and a soldering iron. 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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rtucker55
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/28 14:20:23 (permalink)
Oh Man, Sorry to hear the bad news. Hopefully it's something simple that is a thru-hole component vs. smt. Do you have a multimeter to check any voltages? 
 
 

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#35
yorolpal
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/28 14:27:15 (permalink)
bitflipper
 just a flashlight, a magnifying glass and a soldering iron. 




Heck that's more than MacGyver ever had...bet you knock it out in no time.

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clintmartin
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/28 14:37:13 (permalink)
That sucks!

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#37
bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/28 21:21:56 (permalink)
I'd had some heat-related issues last summer, when the interface would get weird after running for 8+ hours on very hot days. I just started shutting it off when it wasn't in use and all was well. Since then, hot days have become a distant memory.
 
That's why I thought it might be a power-supply issue, perhaps a voltage regulator. Alas, all regulators, reference voltages and main +-10V rails check out. The lights are on, but nobody's home.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#38
rtucker55
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/28 21:45:23 (permalink)
Just throwing stuff out but, you have probably already checked for any electrolytics, with that MacGyver magnifying glass, to see if any of them have bulging tops.

Purrrfect Audio DAW here.  Wow!...
#39
tomixornot
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/28 23:01:38 (permalink)
Bit, hope you'll fix the interface soon!

Albert


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#40
Zo
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/28 23:40:41 (permalink)
Bit , this thing is not to be used all the time , but it's a **** problem solver , understand first the concept : the ability to master the dynamic at a certain frequency ....
 
An exemple : we all have some complex pads aor synths that fluctuate like crazy (witch make them dificult to sit on a mix) ....the thing is that if you compress or limit the thing you lose all the "Life" in it ....so for exemple you can , like usually compress or limit the low end a that fluctuate like crazy and rumble de kick and bass ....compress a little the mid , master the high and boost them a liitle to add air ....
 
 
What i'm trying to say is that this things is like a complex instruments master !!  voice , pads, the more notes , the more frequency range covered ,the more dynmaic movement : the more you will be pushed to use it ....
 
So don't exepct to use it as often as a 1176 or some ...but 2 or 3 in as session will make the job ...
 
See it like an dynamic EQ or a living EQ , with the time dimension added ..
 
 
post edited by Zo - 2014/01/28 23:47:30

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#41
bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/29 11:05:54 (permalink)
Oh, I have no delusions about this being a daily bread 'n butter effect. But I do end up using either a multi-band compressor or a dynamic equalizer in about 50% of my projects, and surprisingly most of the time not as a remedial measure.
 
I'll use them in place of a master bus compressor, with gentle ratios and broad bands, or as a volume leveler for bass or vocals, especially tight vocal harmonies. I'll sometimes use them in place of an equalizer. I've used them for widening, which is why I'm especially excited about Pro-MB's M/S features. I've used a sidechained dynamic EQ to duck instruments against the lead vocal like Space Boy, which improves clarity without sacrificing instrumental energy.
 
And yes, occasionally I use them to cover up mistakes.
 
One thing I've not used them for - so thanks for the suggestion - is leveling pads. I usually avoid thick pads because they're just too cluttery. Maybe dynamic EQ will make me re-think their role.


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#42
lawajava
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/29 23:34:49 (permalink)
BitFlipper, my comment may be perceived as heresy in this thread.

You've been demoing Pro MB right?

I know it's powerful and complicated yada yada. If you haven't purchased yet, I'd ask you to at least rebook at Alloy 2, which also has a free trial. I realize you're aware of most stuff out there including iZotope's stuff.

I have Timeless 2 and am glad for that. But as far as EQ and Multiband compression go, I really appreciate the sensible and intuitive interface of Alloy 2 and also its impressive capabilities.

I'd gladly spend for Alloy 2 over Pro MB.

Since you're a piano expert, here's a reminder / teaser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COtVIGrICPU

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#43
JohnKenn
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/30 02:41:12 (permalink)
Lawa,
 
Don't understand the heresy thing. My crude understanding is we're trying to collectively get through the maze.
 
If Alloy slams Pro-MB in your experience, got to try it out and compare (as long as it don't need an I_lok and I can't get a decent warez crack before buying the thing if it does...)
 
Thanks. Will give the demo a spin.
 
John
#44
bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/30 11:28:19 (permalink)
I've been meaning to take another look at Alloy, which I haven't tried since version 1. Despite being an Ozone fan I'm a little prejudiced against all-in-one processors in general, since I'd probably end up just using the one section I liked best and separate plugins for everything else. But I do hold iZotope in very high regard, every bit the equal to FabFilter in quality.
 
That said, despite the obvious application overlap Alloy and Pro-MB are very different fruit and not direct substitutes for one another. Pro-MB has no exciter, and isn't a conventional compressor. It's a dynamic equalizer (it can also be a multi-band compressor if you want). Dynamic EQ is a small category in the plugin world; I know of only three others.
 
ATM all this is, for me, moot because my computer is currently mute. No demos or tests. No projects. No YouTube, Pandora, video games or Netflix. Funny, 30 years ago my computers were mute and I didn't even notice. Today a computer seems kinda useless without sound.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#45
JohnKenn
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/31 03:58:21 (permalink)
Bit,
 
All I got is street smarts with windows and sound cards. Probably just displaying my ignorance in face of the obvious. You likely done all this already, but just in case.
 
If my box went dead, would try the various native non-ASIO modes to see if the failure was with my card or something deeper. Don't know what interface you have, but if win direct sound or any of the other non ASIO options gives you a garbled second delay blast out of the speakers, trouble is likely with your card or driver corruption.
 
Reinstalling the card drivers, system restore to a previous time options. Diving into the system hardware manager to see what is there and viable.
 
Powermixer a good tool to get an overview of what is functional on the system.
 
http://www.actualsolution.com/power_mixer/
 
Reserved  to mention on this forum without hell fire damnation and causing aggitation, but Reaper as a diagnostic tool can save a lot of grief and locate problems. Would be worth to download the trial if just for the diagnostic capability. Go through the preferences and audio panel routing to more easily see what is there and more importantly what is not there.
 
http://www.reaper.fm/
 
If you got the computer to boot but audio mute, there is hope. What audio card are you using. Way better minds than mine can probably advise/fix.
 
John
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by JohnKenn - 2014/01/31 04:00:03
#46
Starise
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/31 10:48:02 (permalink)
Pro-Mb looks impressive. From what I can gather from the videos and from comments so far It has the advantage of getting there in a more streamlined way with a straightforward GUI.The ability to hone in on selective areas and make the important changes fast gives it a one up on some of the others IMO. I think I'll try the demo. Thanks for the heads up on FF Pro-MB.
 
I use Alloy 2 on only a small percentage of my projects.I haven't really developed a good workflow with it yet. It always seemed as if I could obtain better results with others faster, but maybe that is my error. I haven't looked deeply enough into it ,or taken the time to get deeper with it. I don't just use pre sets but neither have I looked at all it can do. It is really similar to Ozone only it has a more dedicated set of tools for individual tracks.If I A/B it with alternatives the alternatives usually win.
 
The only downside I can see to Pro-MB is that it would be nice to have the ability to change smaller fractions of bands. None of the others do this either TMO which is probably limited.

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#47
bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/31 12:26:22 (permalink)
John: thanks for allocating a few brain-cycles to my problem! Unfortunately, my problem is definitely hardware. It's the interface itself that doesn't boot, freezing at the start of its power-on cycle. 
 
How I wish now I hadn't sold all my test equipment! My HP o-scope went for a hundred bucks, a dumb deal ranking right up there with the 1965 Rickenbacker 12-string I sold for 4 bills. Not that having test gear would necessarily help, as the interface is largely a software-driven device. I still have a few things to try, but it's looking like the unit is headed for the scrap heap. I sent an email to MOTU support to see if the $100 refurb exchange is still offered for the MKII (they won't do it anymore for the MKI), but there has been no reply. Next up, the dreaded last-ditch support phone call.
 
Starise: not sure what you mean by "smaller fractions of bands", are you talking about the overlap between bands? Pro-MB can actually be quite surgical if that's what you need. With 48dB/oct filters, you can zero in on a single octave, which is usually adequate. As with any multi-band, you could place two instances in series to achieve steeper slopes, but at the risk of audible artifacts. 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#48
Starise
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/31 12:56:19 (permalink)
Bitflipper- I should download the demo and give it a try.
 
It appeared to me as if the bands were inflexible. I think someone else mentioned the inability to use Pro-MB in 1/3 ,1/6 octave and so forth on another forum. This seemed to me to be a limitation if you wanted to make a surgical adjustment and that the adjustments are too wide in some cases for certain types of material.
 
Never thought to use more than one instance. You have me curious.
 
Good luck with that interface.

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#49
rtucker55
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/31 13:01:12 (permalink)
If you're looking for something 'Surgical' in the Low-mids and above range why wouldn't something like GlissEQ work?

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Starise
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/31 13:35:56 (permalink)
I tried the Gliss demo and it is a really nice EQ with filters and the ability to adjust gain based on program material. It would likely work well in a lot of situations if you need a really good EQ with db sensing and auto gain adjust.
 
It doesn't have the functions that Pro-MB has with regard to compression limiting and expansion.Not having personally tried this plug-in yet I am in no position to comment on what it can do as of yet.
 
From my vantage point I can see that it would probably be very beneficial in a case where maybe you want to add some compression to a narrow frequency band which is basically what an MB does only Pro-MB goes a few steps further in side chaining options and adds more flexibility in the types of compression added and mostly in its ability to get to the heart of the matter with great controls a useful GUI.Fab Filter seems to be great at intuitive layouts and making maximum use of controls.
 
You don't need to go through various screens in order to get the job done.It looked as if it has presets if you want to use them to get started on something and tweak later, but It seems to be limited to an octave. You can slide the octave and you have pretty good control in that range, but there are times when you might want to compress only a small part of an octave,maybe just work with the tink of a cymbal in a narrow range,say right at the point of contact and then discard the tail, or one small segment of a guitar part.Compression would do the trick in some cases but not always. Now you can adjust EQ, exciter,compression,limiting and side chain all in a simple GUI and in one Plug.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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#51
bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/31 14:55:25 (permalink)
Pro-MB's bands are fully adjustable. Unlike classic mult-band compressors, they don't even need to overlap. 


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#52
bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/31 14:58:08 (permalink)
As for GlissEQ, it isn't really a dynamic EQ in the classic sense. The dynamics control just alters the attack time before the filter kicks in. The closest thing I know of out there is Meldaproduction's MDynamicEQ. It's actually quite similar to Pro-MB in how it works, although the UI is radically different.
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#53
bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/01/31 15:09:14 (permalink)
For non-polyphonic tracks such as bass and vocals, you often don't need a multi-band at all, just a broadband compressor that offers a filtered sidechain. Pro-C is my usual de-esser, for example, although Pro-MB also does a great job as a de-esser.
 
Where the multi-band is most useful is when there is a lot of variance in certain frequency bands, such as parts of a song where there's too much happening in the low mids but conventional EQing would make it too thin in other parts.  Or a vocal whose timbre changes greatly from note to note and phrase to phrase, typically due to the singer not being consistent with distance and angle from the microphone.
 
Another potential scenario would be enhancing transients using expansion, but I haven't had a chance to try that yet.
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#54
lawajava
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/02/02 13:44:20 (permalink)
bitflipper - I've noted your acknowledgement Pro-MB won't be a bread and butter tool. You have some specific uses you're thinking you'll apply it to.
 
For others, I'm reiterating that I think for a bread and butter tool, Alloy 2 is pretty fantastic.  It has multi-band compression as just one of its swiss-army-knife capabilities.  The multi-band in there can be quite surgical, but admittedly not to the ridiculous degree Pro-MB can.  From my experience, Alloy 2 is super easy to comprehend, with a logical workflow and interface.  Unlike some of the software additions I've made over the years where I've been impressed with the addition and liked it for what it did, with Alloy 2 I felt I had acquired a game changer in my capabilities to get some of the refinements I'm looking for in the mix.

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#55
bitflipper
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/02/02 21:10:08 (permalink)
You've sold me, Roger. As soon as my lottery dividend checks start to arrive I'll be adding Alloy to my shopping list! (Yes, I'm an optimist. I haven't actually bought a lottery ticket in years, so mathematically the odds are pretty low.)


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#56
tomixornot
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/02/02 23:38:20 (permalink)
I've got my Alloy 2 at KVR for $90, just browsed, none for sale now. You may have some extra balance on the day :)

Albert


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lawajava
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/02/03 01:30:39 (permalink)
bitflipper -
 
I haven't been mentioning Alloy 2 as an additional buy that would require lottery earnings.  I've been suggesting for some (not for you perhaps), that it would be a wiser spend for less cash out of pocket. 
lessee:
 
 
- Pro-MB - lists at 229 right?  You can use it for non bread and butter purposes. Kind of a nice to have.
 
- Or one could spend $199 for Alloy 2 (at list).  It is applicable for bread and butter purposes and can make a wider range of stuff sound great.
 
More bang for the buck as they say.
 
Unless you're enamored by FabFilter and committed to Pro-MB for non bread and butter pursuits.
 
 

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CTStump
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/02/03 21:53:00 (permalink)
bitflipper
This triggered a minor epiphany. It occurred to me that over the years the ultimate usefulness of a plugin has been inversely proportional to the ease with which it was learned.
 



Sorry bit, I just can't resist reminding you,
 
Are you sorry you passed on the Waves one Knob deal now?
 
All kidding aside I've had that same epiphany myself on many occasions.

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#59
bitflipper
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  • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
  • Location: Everett, WA USA
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Re: Pro-MB, Day One 2014/02/04 10:33:27 (permalink)
I'm waiting for them to bundle the One Knob series with their upcoming One Note Synthesizer. But I'm going to beat them to the punch with my fixed-Q Single-band Equalizer.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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