Helpful ReplyProblem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter

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henkejs
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2018/10/10 01:44:13 (permalink)

Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter

I posted on a thread in the Software forum (http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3789334), but I'll repeat it here in case more people will see it in the SONAR forum. The Adaptive Limiter is causing occasional, barely audible clicks in a mastering project I started today. It's got only a single stereo track and, so far, two VSTs. When I bypass the limiter the clicks go away, so that seems to be where the problem is coming from.
 
Anyway, people in the other thread suggested increasing the buffers. I've tried that. Then I tried lowering the buffers just to see what that did. Same result in all cases. The clicks didn't get better and they didn't get worse either. Has anybody else found this problem? Did you come up with a solution? Thanks in advance.

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#1
promidi
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/10 02:31:56 (permalink)
What are your machine specs?

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gswitz
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/10 03:26:17 (permalink)
Raise your buffer for your interface?

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
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bvideo
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/10 06:14:31 (permalink)
You could try to disable plug-in load balancing (Edit > Preferences > Audio - Playback and Recording, just below the "Use Multiprocessing Engine") to see if your clicks are related to a problem I reported about clicks/pops.
post edited by bvideo - 2018/10/10 17:38:45

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henkejs
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/10 15:14:21 (permalink)
Thanks for the replies.
 
@promidi -- Intel Core i7-4790, 3.60 GHz. The CPU meter barely budges above baseline when running this project.
@gswitz -- I tried everything up to 1024 and down to 128.
@bvideo -- Load balancing was already disabled. I tried toggling it and "Use Multiprocessing Engine" on/off with no effect. By the way, I got an error when I clicked on your link.
 
My normal practice when I finish mixing a project is to export a 32-bit stereo track and import that into a new project for mastering. That is what I did when this problem surfaced. Just out of curiosity, this morning I tried loading the Adaptive Limiter onto the Master bus of the original multitrack project. With buffers set at 256, the clicks were gone! Not sure what this means, but it argues against the idea that the problem is an issue with CPU or other PC resources.

A few of my songs
 
SONAR Platinum, Cakewalk by BandLab, Windows 10, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6.
#5
bvideo
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/10 17:40:31 (permalink)
Thanks for trying those settings. Link is fixed, thank you.

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henkejs
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/11 01:52:49 (permalink)
That was an interesting thread, Bill. Did the problem you saw ever get fixed in later updates?
 

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bvideo
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/11 03:17:24 (permalink)
It has not been acknowledged by the staff, even after all the various trouble reporting methods I tried. Not mentioned in any CbB release notes.

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scook
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/11 05:08:33 (permalink)
bvideo
 Not mentioned in any CbB release notes.

Adaptive Limiter is not bundled with CbB. BandLab has not mentioned when/if this plug-in will be released.
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bvideo
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/11 05:49:15 (permalink)
Sorry for the confusion, Steve. My posts above were not about the adaptive limiter, but about a different mysterious problem with clicks, which I traced to the load balancing feature. The OP has said my bug report does not apply to his observations about the adaptive limiter, but he found my problem report thread interesting. In my scenario, I was using the concrete limiter, and I thought its only role was to make the clicks and pops easier to hear.

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orangesporanges
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/12 17:05:24 (permalink)
henkejs,
I just scanned through this thread briefly, so I may have missed something, but my question is, is it possible that adaptive limiter is functioning perfectly normally, and raising the level of an existent pop/click in your audio itself, and not producing some artifact on its own? A couple of quick things you may be able to do. 1) try a different limiter, and see if it does exactly the same thing (then you know it's the audio).
2) get your markers ready, and place them on the locations you hear the distortions and zoom in to see what's going on in the source material.
Just a couple of thoughts...

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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/12 23:38:33 (permalink)
Good suggestions. If a click appears at the same point during playback, the first thing I do is to zoom in on the waveform to see if it's in the audio. That can, for example, be caused by an incorrect clock source during recording. However, the OP seems to be saying that the clicks are only there when AL is inserted. He didn't say if he'd tried a different limiter, but that's a good suggestion. It's possible the clicks are being amplified by the limiter rather than generated by it.
 
 


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bapu
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/13 04:58:35 (permalink)
The biggest problem with Adaptive Limiter, for me, is that t can't be used in other DAWs.
 
But in CbB no clicking for me. 
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Kamikaze
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/13 06:39:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2018/10/13 14:17:57
bapu
The biggest problem with Adaptive Limiter, for me, is that t can't be used in other DAWs.
 
But in CbB no clicking for me. 


Yes it can, it works in both Sonar and Cakewalk

 
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henkejs
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/13 15:42:51 (permalink)
orangesporanges
henkejs,
I just scanned through this thread briefly, so I may have missed something, but my question is, is it possible that adaptive limiter is functioning perfectly normally, and raising the level of an existent pop/click in your audio itself, and not producing some artifact on its own? A couple of quick things you may be able to do. 1) try a different limiter, and see if it does exactly the same thing (then you know it's the audio).
2) get your markers ready, and place them on the locations you hear the distortions and zoom in to see what's going on in the source material.
Just a couple of thoughts...




This is a good strategy, and I was able to identify a couple of spots with clicks hidden in one of the source tracks on the multitrack version. By soloing each track one by one and turning the gain way up, I was able to isolate and eliminate two problem areas with careful editing of the clip gain.
 
However, the subsequent mixed down version in my mastering project still had minor clicks that didn't seem to correspond to any artifacts in the original recorded tracks. Ultimately, I ended up taking the Adaptive Limiter off the mastering project. In this particular case, I didn't really need to push levels with the limiter. I was just using it as a safety measure in case I got careless with gain settings.
 
The Adaptive Limiter has worked well for me on other projects, so I'll certainly try it again on the next one. Thanks to all who took the time to reply on this thread.
 

A few of my songs
 
SONAR Platinum, Cakewalk by BandLab, Windows 10, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6.
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randyman
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Re: Problem With the Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter 2018/10/13 20:17:34 (permalink)
I guess I've always thought of the Adaptive Limiter as more of a buss type of application.  (I guess the look ahead type of things I nearly always assume as more of a final type of application).
 
I've not had the experience you mention though.
 
 

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