Problem with Jog Wheel in 4.0.3

I haven't seen this topic on any other post and was wondering if anyone out there has seen a similar issue with 4.0.3. I'm using a Radikal Technologies SAC-2.2 control surface with Sonar PE. This surface is currently supported in Sonar. I work in the staff view a lot of the time and am used to scrolling back and forth using the jog wheel on the control surface. After I installed the 4.0.3 patch, I noticed that turning the jog wheel caused the view to move slower and slower until the program locked up after a few seconds. Some objects would flash on the screen but nothing else would work for about 30 seconds to 1 minute until the program ran through all the stacked up interrupts I guess and then would unfreeze. However, moving the jog wheel after that would cause the same thing to happen again. It has made me unable to use the jog wheel on the at all for navigation. I completely uninatalled Sonar then reinstalled everything over again. The jog wheel worked up through the 4.0.2 patch but not on 4.0.3. I even checked the dll file that was supposedly not being updated by 4.0.3 and found it was up to date. I am currently back to using the 4.0.2 patch and have been waiting to see something about this on the forum but have not. I emailed a technical support request in to Cake but haven't had a reply in over 2 weeks. Does anyone have an idea what might be going on? I would like to apply the patch but have grown used to the jog wheel and don't want to give it up.

Much obliged for any technical hints.

P.S. Cakewalk, I could sure use some technical support. Where are you?

Ryan,

Thanks for your suggestion. On the Cakewalk web site there is no mention of a phone number for technical support so I assumed that there was only email support available. I will contact them by phone as soon as possible.

Howard

after a while i get what you said..Sonar freezes for a while until i can even stop it..the audio engine feels like it's "stuck"

BUMP

Chris,

I called tech support on the phone and they said they would try to reproduce the problem and send me an email with the results. I haven't heard anything yet.

I'm not too optimistic because on my SAC-2.2 the indicator lights stopped working between Sonar V. 2 and V. 3. Tech support told me it didn't happen on their end and stopped replying to me (maybe because the problem didn't occur right away but after a few minutes of use). I haven't forgotten that. So I hope they can reproduce this bug. I will let you know what I find out from them.

Howard Patterson

Hi Chris,

I got a response from technical support about the transport problem. Here is their quote below.

"I have examined your issue regarding the Sac 2.2 control surface. There is indeed an shuttling issue when in the staff view using SONAR 4.03. I have submitted it as bug to be examined by our QA and development teams. In the meantime: If shuttling in the staff view is an important part of your workflow, you may wish to use SONAR 4.02. If it is not, you may wish to shuttle in one of the other views or shuttle with the mouse while in staff view. Feel free to check back any time for updates."

You mentioned that your problems were caused by a plugin but you didn't mention if you used that SAC-2.2 control surface. I haven't had any of these problems with 4.0.2 no matter what plugin I use. However, if you still have problems then the phone support seems to be the best bet. I haven't historically gotten much satisfaction with email support.

Good Luck,

Howard

has the scrolling problem been fixed in 4.0.4

I got a response from technical support about the transport problem. Here is their quote below.

"I have examined your issue regarding the Sac 2.2 control surface. There is indeed an shuttling issue when in the staff view using SONAR 4.03. I have submitted it as bug to be examined by our QA and development teams. In the meantime: If shuttling in the staff view is an important part of your workflow, you may wish to use SONAR 4.02. If it is not, you may wish to shuttle in one of the other views or shuttle with the mouse while in staff view. Feel free to check back any time for updates."

I'm using a SAC-2.2 also and running 5.0 PE, and I haven't noticed this. But, I don't use the staff view, just the track view. I haven't used the MIDI capabilities of SONAR for years.

Just in general though, have you noticed instabiltiy with the SAC? If I use it for too long it eventually start to lose sync between SONAR and the interface. Control buttons become sluggish and eventually it's unusable. It would be wonderful if they uncovered and squashed a bug that would explain both the problem I see and your problem.

Al,

I have noticed problems with the SAC-2.2 ever since Sonar 3. In Sonar 2 it worked great, the panel lights followed which track was selected, there was no problems with the wheel, and the scrolling worked well. Then in Sonar 3 I noticed that the lights on the panel would work when you first turned on Sonar but cease to work (freeze) after moving around the piece for a few minutes. I assumed there was a bug in the software but Cakewalk denied there was a problem. I contacted the manufacturere of the SAC but they said if it passes the self test it's fine. Now it's the jog wheel in 4.0.3 (and I assume 5.0). Cakewalk has acknowledged the bug but didn't offer a time line to fix it. I'll be damned if I'll pay the upgrade fee to 5.0 to get another version that doesn't work properly with my equipment. If Cakewalk doesn't want to support a peripheral like the SAC they should withdraw mention of it in their documentation. I feel like they are languishing in keeping the basic functionality of the software alive while adding features I don't care about.

This has been frustrating me for years. I get steamed every time I hear about another upgrade coming along that we have to pay for that doesn't address longstanding problems. If you hear anything back from them on your situation, please let me know.

Scott,

I'm glad Radikal was helpful to you. When I first reported the problem back in 2004 they basically ignored me. Ditto for Cakewalk tech support.

I just don't think Cakewalk is willing to do anything to improve support for the SAC-2.2. I think they should just stop claiming that it works with the platform.

My previous posts have spoken of the frustration I've felt as I've watched this remarkable (and expensive) piece of equipment limp along and becoming more and more useless with each new Sonar. I think the last straw was when the 4.0.3 update broke the jog wheel functionality and while tech support acknowledged the bug they then released Sonar 5 and I lost any hope of ever seeing this bug fixed without spending big bucks again. Let alone getting back all of the functionality that has been lost.

However, I've found a workaround. Over the holidays I picked up a copy of Cubase SX3. While the editing functions are not quite as advanced as Sonar's I now enjoy full support of the SAC, a sound quality that is quite magnificent, and full VST as well as DXi support. Everything seems a lot more stable on my system as well. I'm having to get used to a new way of working but I'm happy I won't have to deal with the frustration any more and someone else will get my nickel besides Cakewalk.

Good luck to you getting this resolved.

Howard

Sure enough, Sonar stops sending indicator messages to the SAC after a few minutes.

Exactly which messages is it not sending? Do you know?

Howard,

I have an associate that also uses Sonar and the SAC (who is equally frustrated) and we were also talking recently about Cubase. I’ve also looked at the Mackie control...but I don’t like it as much as the SAC (and it is more expensive than switching software). My only concern with new software is the learning curve – I’ve been with cakewalk since the DOS days and know it very well. After I finish this next project, I may pick up a copy of Cubase and give it a whirl – the people who use it really seem to like it. Thanks for your response.

Eric,

Yes…It it a string of system exclusive data that I don’t have a copy of at the moment. The Midiox program is free and a wonderful troubleshooting aid – you just set it up while you’re working and it displays all the sysex exchange between programs. When you press say the mute button on the SAC, the SAC sends the sysex command to Sonar. Sonar performs the function then sends a sysex command back to the SAC to turn the light on. After a few minutes Sonar stops send back the commands – it’s clear as day.

Here’s Jorge’s (Radikal Tech) response:

“in order to make sure, that it is not your unit, I would connect the SAC via MIDI only and would connect the MIDI-Thru port to a second MIDI interface port. Then I would scan the MIDI messages from the THRU port with MIDIOX - the free of charge MIDI monitor. The SAC sends the mute button or Solo button via MIDI. But the SAC will not control the button LED by itself - after receiving the SAC's message, the software must reflect the button pressing by switching the LED on by sending a MIDI message. Otherwise, it would not be possible for the software vendor to create their own SAC implementation. Some programs will for example control the buttons in the way that they are flashing other programs can create a normal "light on". The MIDI monitor will help you to check, whether the MUTE messages are sent by the software when you press the button or not. Maybe, sonar starts to send the messages to another MIDI channel or whatever. A MIDI monitor for sure would be a good help to figure that out. If the messages are the same after 20 minutes, you can be sure, that the SAC is starting to ignore these messages after a while (what I can't believe really). If the messages are not coming anymore after 20 minutes, maybe sonar is doing something wrong. And when there are still messages but the messages are different than they were before, also Sonar is doing something wrong... From what I hear from you it seems like, that the rest of the communication is fully working. Then it is obviously a bug in the sonar software or in the SAC. I don't believe it is the SAC, because that would then be reported by other customers as well, who are using different programs. I don't think, that that has to do with ACPI. I also recommend to disable that - but I don't see a way, that ACPI can cause the button LEDS stop working after 20 minutes. “

Hope this helps.

Brandon,

Thanks for your response. Hopefully we can resolve this quickly with a feature set similar to the Mackie Control.

Scott

I'll try to post (or have someone post) with information so some of you SAC users don't feel like you are just hanging.

Did you manage to get the ear of any developers?

ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]

Hi everyone,

I'm here at the NAMM show and will bring this issue up to those on the development team. I'll try to post (or have someone post) with information so some of you SAC users don't feel like you are just hanging.

I'm also interested in some type of response. These problems are costing me too much time (and ultimately money). Please keep us posted.

Scott