Problem with MC5

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Vynceton
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2011/08/04 08:06:01 (permalink)

Problem with MC5

Hello

i just started to use MC5 (i am almost totally new to making music, i played around with cakewalk about 20 years ago for some time, but can't really remember anthing besides that i had fun)

that's also the reason i bought MC5, to play around and get some things done for my own entertainment ;)


after installing and ading a few notes i ran into an issue which i cannot figure out, everything sounded weird and somehow "out of sync"
simple example out of the event list (this "Subway Tunnel" out of the DSF Urban Instument Addon in case that matters)
1 - 00:00:00:00 - 1:01:000 - Note - 1- C3 - 100 - 1000
1 - 00:00:00:10 - 1:02:000 - Note - 1- C3 - 100 - 1000
1 - 00:00:00:20 - 1:03:000 - Note - 1- C3 - 100 - 1000
1 - 00:00:01:00 - 1:04:000 - Note - 1- C3 - 100 - 1000
1 - 00:00:01:10 - 2:01:000 - Note - 1- C3 - 100 - 1000
1 - 00:00:01:20 - 2:02:000 - Note - 1- C3 - 100 - 1000
1 - 00:00:02:00 - 2:03:000 - Note - 1- C3 - 100 - 1000
1 - 00:00:02:10 - 2:04:000 - Note - 1- C3 - 100 - 1000
Notes whre set manuelly in Piano Roll

when i loop this and play it this should simply be a steady beat, but it is clearly not the case, and it's much easier to recognize the faster the speed is (from 140+ it's really awful, at 100 i can't recognize it)

Anyone encountered something like this or has an idea what i do wrong?
#1

15 Replies Related Threads

    jasonking
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 08:12:50 (permalink)
    i dont know sir. Only thing i can say is, if your using windows 7, have you installed the update?
    #2
    Beagle
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 08:20:08 (permalink)
    first, if you want a steady sound for 2 measures, why did you use quarter notes instead of two tied whole notes? (in the PRV, just use one long note across both measures) my guess is that if you do that you will not hear a problem between the notes.

    2nd - my first point above is only assuming what you're talking about, so let's clarify - are you saying that you hear a brief pause between each note?  you didn't specify what you DO hear, you only specified what you DON'T hear.

    if you hear a brief drop between each quarter note then that is going to be due to the way that the softsynth is handling the MIDI data for that sample.  the sample you are using ("Subway Tunnel") is apparently ramping up at the beginning and dropping off at the end of each note ON and OFF respectively.  Honestly this is the behavior I would normally expect anyway.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #3
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 11:11:36 (permalink)
    Vynceton,

    First let me say.... WELCOME BACK.

    I too had played with Cake in the past, got away from it for a number of years and returned a few years back.

    When I came back, I came in with one motto..... to do what I needed to make it work and that included buying  the things needed to make it work.

    I started with MC4 and an external interface (sound card) . I had to learn about midi and soft synths and so many other things..... I did it one step at a time with a goal in mind.

    It sounds like you have the synth and sound working so.....

    What sound card are you using? What is the OS?

    When I need to edit or add notes, I like to use the STAFF view since I learned to play music on a piano and it seems natural to me. In it, I am able to set the "default" note value as eighth or quarter, so every note I add with my mouse is that value.

    I have notices that if I have a note with a certain value, and I add another note the same pitch (drums or an instrument) behind it that starts while the other is still being "held" the second note will not sound.  I find I need to manually edit the note duration.
    This could be the problem or it could be the sound card...so.... give up some details.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #4
    Vynceton
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 11:14:21 (permalink)
    first : thanks for the quick answers

    to jasongking: i'm using windoes 7 with every windows upgrade available installed, with Music Creater in Version 5.0.5.6

    to Beagle : i hear difference in time between the notes (C3 in subway tunnel is a bassdrum), i used quarter notes because its easier to handle in the piano roll (better overview , IMHO) and the sound is the same.
    when i put quarter notes in a row i would expect the tim between 2 notes be exactly the same, but it's not.

    i've tried the same with a bass sound (1/8 notes at 1:01:480 / 1:02:480 and so on), and every 4th note sound different (shorter), wich does match my feeling the like the last 1/16 to 1/32 note of every full note is just skipped and, so timespan of the last the quarter note is shorter than the first 3.

    Sorry if the explanation does look weird, but i'm not a native english speaker, and also not familiar with writing about music programming

     

    #5
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 11:18:05 (permalink)
    What is the MODE in W7? 64 or 32 bits?

    what is the native language?

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #6
    Vynceton
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 11:25:09 (permalink)
    to guitarhacker: i also have the soundcard on my shortlist, it's only a crappy onboard soundcard (because i never expected to play around with music on this PC when i bought it 3 years ago).  Now i just wanted to try around a bit, and upgrade the hardware if i experience the same fun again playing around with MC5 as i had with cakewalk 2 years ago.
    If the chance is good the soundcard is the reason for this odd sound (while the instruments itself sound good) i guess i got to do this earlier than planned.
    For that case, any suggstion with hardware would you suggest is a good value? I don't need to get cheap, but i also do not see the need to get real high-end equipment for my purpose.

    it's windows 7 32-bit and german
    #7
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 12:35:08 (permalink)
    32 bit is good.... yes, especially if you are on a laptop, you need to invest into a decent soundcard/interface.

    I have often referred to the soundcard as the heart of the system. So when you get one, buy a good one. With MC5 you only need a 2 channel audio interface, but be sure it does midi as well.

    There are plenty of interfaces out there and only you can decide what to get for your system. Check on Beagle's web site. He has set up a chart that might help you narrow the choices a bit.

    I recommend a USB based interface. It will move easily between computers as you upgrade the computer.

    The crappy on board soundcard does cause a bunch of problems especially with timing and latency issues so, it could very well be the source of the problem.  A new sound card is in order if you really expect to get serious or get any real decent results with MC5.

    I use a Focusrite Saffire. They have retired this model but the company is still making interfaces and if mine ever quit I'd buy another Focusrite in a heart beat.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #8
    Beagle
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 13:10:27 (permalink)
    ok - this is a bass (kick) note sound.  they don't sound for 1/4 note durations, they're transient with short decays, so I'm not sure I understand then exactly what you're having a problem with for the sounds.  I understand it's difficult to explain to us if your not a native English speaker, but please try to explain in a different way what the problem with the sound is.
    post edited by Beagle - 2011/08/04 14:58:13

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #9
    Vynceton
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 14:20:27 (permalink)
    the sounds itself are not the problem, it's the timing

    even if notes are in exactly the same spacing from each other it does not output like this, the time between notes varies.
    And if i there is a note towards the end of a section (i don't know whats it's really called, the duration of a full mode, in the piano roll seprated witha vertical line and a number) i will sound shorter than the same note at any time

    i would post a screenshot and a soundfile but it looks like that's not possible in this forum

    i think i will try a new sound hardware, great listing btw. beagle, to bad i do not know any of those manufacturers, looks they are all not distributed in germany, or only in specialized stores i never went to (yet).

    thanks for the help, looks like a great community in this forum
    #10
    Beagle
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 14:24:58 (permalink)
    screenshots are possible and it might help a lot

    here are instructions on how to post screenshots

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1592276

    and for looking for soundcards in Europe, I'll ping Strummy and he can give some help with that.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #11
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 15:43:28 (permalink)
    to post music or sound examples.... go to www.soundclick.com and open an account. It's free and only takes a few minutes. You can upload the MP3 file of the sound (NO WAVE FILES) and post the link to it in your post here. copy & paste the sound's web page address.

    It's OK to post an example here of something that is a sound of what is happening. If it's a full song, it's better to post that in the songs forum, especially one that you want feedback on.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #12
    Beagle
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/04 15:52:20 (permalink)
    steve said he didn't know of a supplier that ships to Germany, sorry.  I don't know who to contact about that.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #13
    Vynceton
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/05 14:59:47 (permalink)
    i searched around a bit and found an internet vendor in germany selling M-Audio devices

    after looking through the webshob i'm thinking about ordering a M-AUDIO FAST TRACK PRO, what are your opinions on that choice? The alternative would be a M-AUDIO DELTA AUDIOPHILE 2496 in my opinion, but i really like the idea of an external device that i can use with a laptop as well.

    I am also in doubt a little bit about that being a sound card (because in the specs it says tons of stuff, but nothing about being usable as an external PC-Soundcard), but if I understand Beagle's homepage correct than this is one too (Audio Card = Sound Card = Audio Interface = Sound Interface)
    #14
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/05 15:26:56 (permalink)
    Yeah that should work just fine..... even though it doesn't specifically say "soundcard" in the specs...... trust us when we say that it is.

    You should be able to set that up and be very happy with the results.

    It had all the things I would look for in a basic interface: 2 channels in, level controls, midi in/out, phantom power, hi & lo impedence inputs, nice flashing and steady lights to make it look cool, USB on the back..... oh yeah, and several outputs to send to the monitors.

    I say yes.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #15
    Beagle
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    Re:Problem with MC5 2011/08/05 16:45:47 (permalink)
    the fast track pro should just fine!  It's on my recommended list!  and yes, Audio Card = Soundcard = Audio Interface = Sound Interface - they're all the same thing as long as they have sound drivers for a computer.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #16
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