Problem with dividing a drum track

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mstead12
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2006/07/24 16:36:05 (permalink)

Problem with dividing a drum track

I originally recorded a full drum set on one track using a midi drum on my Motif ES. I recorded all drum parts separately but stacked on one track. Then I decided that I wanted greater control over each drum part so I copied each part to a different track. I couldn't control the individual volumes so I assigned each midi drum track to a different out port with a matching channel of the same drum on my synth. I'm still not able to controll the volumes separately. I can move the volume but then it springs back to the original setting. Any thoughts?

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    Plyrman
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 16:46:16 (permalink)
    you are adjusting the volume where.....in the track pane or within the Motif...???

    Mike G.
    Sonar X3 Custom Build: IntelCore2Quad, 16 gig Ram, Asus Z87-Plus, Internal 200GB SATA HDD (1) 320GB SATA HDD (2), Motif Rack, Roland Juno-G, Trigger Finger, Keystation 88, Tascam FW1082, JBL 4328's
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    mstead12
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 16:49:29 (permalink)
    either / both...... nada

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    bmdaustin
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 16:50:58 (permalink)
    The problem is that you're using (I assume) just the one drum kit from the Motif so it can only respond to one volume command. You would need to load up a separate drum kit for each track to be able to set each one at a different volume. Sonar sends out the volume commands in track order, so if your drum tracks are #1-#5, the Motif will react to the volume setting of #5 becuase the settings from #1-#4 will have been overridden by #5.

    To use just the one kit, experiment with changing the velocity of the notes instead of the volume, or perhaps it's possible to adjust the kit's mix from within the Motif. Another alternative is to record each track separately as audio, and then you'll be able to control the volumes independently.

    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
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    yorolpal
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 16:56:21 (permalink)
    Right, every individual drum/cymbal/etc... must be on it's own separate midi channel (if you want to control volume). But you might be surprised by how much mileage you can get from Paul's suggestion to adjust each drums velocity. I'd suggest setting your master volume at 127 and then controlling your drums by selectively "cutting" your velocities. HTH.
    post edited by yorolpal - 2006/07/24 17:21:35

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    Susan G
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 16:56:55 (permalink)
    Hi Michael-

    The easiest way to do this IMO is to use a Drum Map. The "Vel+" settings allow you to apply a velocity offset to each drum. I have some Motif drum maps, but I made them for the "Classic" -- not sure if they're the same for the ES. There's quite a bit of info in the SONAR documentation, though.

    HTH-

    -Susan

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    #6
    Plyrman
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 16:57:28 (permalink)
    he could try the "drum map manager"....sending each sound to a different out.....and use a different out on each track.????.....that's a lotta work though......as mentioned previously...if you would like to manage the volumes at this stage of the the project...I would just "convert" to audio.....?????

    (once again Susan and I are thinkin alike)..... ;-0

    hey Susan...how ya been...???
    post edited by Plyrman - 2006/07/24 17:10:29

    Mike G.
    Sonar X3 Custom Build: IntelCore2Quad, 16 gig Ram, Asus Z87-Plus, Internal 200GB SATA HDD (1) 320GB SATA HDD (2), Motif Rack, Roland Juno-G, Trigger Finger, Keystation 88, Tascam FW1082, JBL 4328's
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    Susan G
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 17:03:27 (permalink)
    He doesn't really need to send each drum to a different out at all. Maybe I'm wrong, but I got the impression Michael did that as a workaround so he could control the volume of the individual drums. He can easily do that using the Vel+ settings in the Drum Map manager with the whole kit going to a single output.

    -Susan

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    #8
    Plyrman
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 17:08:27 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Susan G

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I got the impression Michael did that as a workaround so he could control the volume of the individual drums.

    -Susan



    I just didn't see that he actually was using the "drum map manager" ..???

    As I mentioned ...probably convertin to audio is the simple rout...???

    Mike G.
    Sonar X3 Custom Build: IntelCore2Quad, 16 gig Ram, Asus Z87-Plus, Internal 200GB SATA HDD (1) 320GB SATA HDD (2), Motif Rack, Roland Juno-G, Trigger Finger, Keystation 88, Tascam FW1082, JBL 4328's
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    Susan G
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 17:11:41 (permalink)
    Hi Mike-
    I just didn't see that he actually was using the "drum map manager" ..???

    No, he's not. I suggested he try it as an alternative to what he's doing currently:
    Then I decided that I wanted greater control over each drum part so I copied each part to a different track. I couldn't control the individual volumes so I assigned each midi drum track to a different out port with a matching channel of the same drum on my synth.

    IMO, using a Drum Map would be easier for him, so that's what I recommended.

    -Susan

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    mstead12
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 17:15:55 (permalink)
    I use Scale velosity ok and use to do it on individual notes, but the last few times I've tried to pull up the vel I just got a new note put on the screen.

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    Susan G
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 17:20:43 (permalink)
    I use Scale velosity ok and use to do it on individual notes, but the last few times I've tried to pull up the vel I just got a new note put on the screen.

    Which ES drum kit are you using? Maybe I can post a Drum Map for you. Drum Maps really aren't all that difficult to use once you get over the initial hump, and they really do come in handy for stuff like this!

    -Susan
    post edited by Susan G - 2006/07/24 17:35:05

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    #12
    mstead12
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 17:28:22 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Susan G

    I use Scale velosity ok and use to do it on individual notes, but the last few times I've tried to pull up the vel I just got a new note put on the screen.

    Which ES drum kit are you using? Maybe I can post a Drum Map for you. Drum Maps really aren't all that difficult to use once you get over the initial hump, and they really do come in handy for stuff like this!

    -Susan


    It's called RockSt2

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    Tom Roussell [Cakewalk]
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 17:31:19 (permalink)
    Now that you have each drum on its own track, simply use each track's "Velocity Trim" control to adjust its apparent volume. There's no need to use a Drum Map as others have mentioned. Assign all drum tracks to the same port and channel.

    BTW, there's a CAL file you can use to separate the different drum parts. Look for "Notes to Tracks.CAL". Much easier and faster than separating them by hand.

    Tom
    Cakewalk
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    Susan G
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 17:44:34 (permalink)
    Hi Michael-

    The Motif Classic has that kit, but I haven't made a Drum Map for it yet. You can just try one of the maps that SONAR ships with, though (even one of the GM maps), and fiddle with the Vel+ setting to see if it does what you want. You might decide it's more trouble than it's worth to create a .map for that kit, but it's really just monkey work -- a bit tedious, but worth it in the long run, IMO, for any kit you use regularly.

    Good luck, and let us know-

    -Susan

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    Susan G
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 17:48:51 (permalink)
    Hi Tom-
    Now that you have each drum on its own track, simply use each track's "Velocity Trim" control to adjust its apparent volume. There's no need to use a Drum Map as others have mentioned.

    Good advice, certainly, but just so I don't think I've wasted too much of my life with Drum Maps in the past -- It makes sense to use them if all of the drums are on the same track, doesn't it (i.e., a Drum Map would have made sense for Michael before he split them to separate tracks)? Otherwise, what's the point?

    Thanks-

    -Susan
    post edited by Susan G - 2006/07/24 18:04:25

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    mstead12
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 17:50:40 (permalink)
    I'll try the velosity. Guess I'll have to brake out the book to see how to change the vel on individual notes. If I don't figure it out then I'll do midi to audio. Thanks for all help.

    AMD 3700+ 64bit - running 32, 2gb ram
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    Plyrman
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    RE: Problem with dividing a drum track 2006/07/24 19:27:48 (permalink)
    "Bowing to Susan"......LOL

    Mike G.
    Sonar X3 Custom Build: IntelCore2Quad, 16 gig Ram, Asus Z87-Plus, Internal 200GB SATA HDD (1) 320GB SATA HDD (2), Motif Rack, Roland Juno-G, Trigger Finger, Keystation 88, Tascam FW1082, JBL 4328's
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