Problems multi-track recording drums using Roland V-Drums mapped to Addictive Drums 2

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Billy86
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2016/03/11 14:36:41 (permalink)

Problems multi-track recording drums using Roland V-Drums mapped to Addictive Drums 2

Hi. I'm trying to figure out the best approach for using a Roland V-Drum kit with Sonar and Addictive Drums 2, and have a couple of issues/questions.
 
I'm trying to multi-track record drums via MIDI using a Roland V-Drum kit to trigger an AD2 kit. I've set up a template in which AD2 outputs kit pieces as well as overheads and room mics to individual tracks. Then I mapped the Roland kit pieces to the individual kit pieces in AD2 with a built-in map AD2 provides for Roland V-Drums. I can trigger the AD2 pieces with corresponding Roland pieces, so the signal flow seems to be set. And I'm apparently not having an issue with the hihat open/close/sensitivity snafu I've read others are having.
 
With my AD2 multitrack template loaded, I record-armed all the individual kit piece tracks (10 of them: kick, snare, toms, hithat etc...) and started playing along with a song I'm using as a guide track. It seemed to be working (I could see meters bouncing) until Sonar locked up and the dreaded "program is not responding" message made its appearance. So it crashed. I think it's because I had to set my latency really low (around 6ms) to hear the Roland pad strikes on the beat, without the lag between the pad/trigger strikes and the generated AD2 sounds. So I'll increase my latency and see if that prevents the crashing. At 10ms, I definitely have some latency-lag issues. Anything else I should consider? I could come straight out of the Roland with 1/4" stereo outs and use the Roland's internal kits to do a stereo track, but I'm trying to figure out how to use the MIDI to do multi-track drum recording. 
 
My other issue is, I couldn't get much volume from the drums when playing along with a song guide track, even though the meter levels on the recording tracks looked like they were strong signals. If I add a bunch of gain to the kit tracks so I can hear them -- either with the AD2 mixer or Sonar -- will it end up a distorted mess because of clipping? I tried adjusting my direct/playback knob on a Focusrite 2i4, but that didn't help.
 
Thanks for any insight/experience sharing!

Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Problems multi-track recording drums using Roland V-Drums mapped to Addictive Drums 2 2016/03/11 17:01:02 (permalink)
    Is there any specific reason you're not first recording the midi performance but going straight to multi track audio? If you suspect your computer is struggling this might alleviate the issue somewhat.

    As for volume, lower your other tracks and turn up the main monitoring volume.
    #2
    Billy86
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    Re: Problems multi-track recording drums using Roland V-Drums mapped to Addictive Drums 2 2016/03/11 19:40:35 (permalink)
    Sanderxpander
    Is there any specific reason you're not first recording the midi performance but going straight to multi track audio? If you suspect your computer is struggling this might alleviate the issue somewhat.
     
    Thanks for the response. Aren't the multi-tracks I'm trying to record through the AD2 plug-in kit MIDI tracks? Isn't that what AD2 out-puts? I'm really new at the whole MIDI thing, and it's still a mystery, like looking around a dark cave with a flashlight. If there's a way to record MIDI that allows for the performance to result in individual drum tracks, that sounds ideal! Can you point me to a resource that explains how to do that?  

    As for volume, lower your other tracks and turn up the main monitoring volume.

    I tried a bit of this, but I'll give another shot.
     

    Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
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    lawajava
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    Re: Problems multi-track recording drums using Roland V-Drums mapped to Addictive Drums 2 2016/03/11 20:16:22 (permalink)
    I don't have any latency issues. I also have that genre of a Focusrite unit. Works like a charm. That's because I route the V-drum audio outputs to a great (about) $120 mixer: Yamaha MG06X.

    That allows me to hear absolutely zero latency when hitting any kit piece and to mix in the rest of the music from Sonar at any appropriate level.

    So that's great. Would solve the issue described above, and does for me. Also use this for mic recording to eliminate any latency issues when recording from a mic.

    The problem I have is with recording the hi hat of AD2. I recorded, for example, simultaneously one drum performance into Session Drummer 3, AD2, and BFD3. All three sounded great and perfect. Except AD2 had the timing off on the hi hat for that same performance. Only AD2 was off. I gave up. I'm guessing it's me and user error. But I've tried a lot and spent too much time on it. BFD3 works every time for me. Currently going with what works.

    Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
    #4
    Billy86
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    Re: Problems multi-track recording drums using Roland V-Drums mapped to Addictive Drums 2 2016/03/11 20:34:31 (permalink)
    lawajava
    I don't have any latency issues. I also have that genre of a Focusrite unit. Works like a charm. That's because I route the V-drum audio outputs to a great (about) $120 mixer: Yamaha MG06X.

    That allows me to hear absolutely zero latency when hitting any kit piece and to mix in the rest of the music from Sonar at any appropriate level.
     
    Interesting. But I'm confused. Sorry. I have virtually the same Yamaha mixer (8 tracks) that isn't a part of my equation. How are you able to multi-track record the V-drums triggering your drum plug-ins in Sonar going through the Yamaha? Or are you using the Roland's on board kits (omitting MIDI and your plug-in kits in Sonar), then going out of the brain with L/R stereo into the Yamaha, and then L/R stereo out of the Yamaha into your interface?
     
    So that's great. Would solve the issue described above, and does for me. Also use this for mic recording to eliminate any latency issues when recording from a mic.

    The problem I have is with recording the hi hat of AD2. I recorded, for example, simultaneously one drum performance into Session Drummer 3, AD2, and BFD3. All three sounded great and perfect. Except AD2 had the timing off on the hi hat for that same performance. Only AD2 was off. I gave up. I'm guessing it's me and user error. But I've tried a lot and spent too much time on it. BFD3 works every time for me. Currently going with what works.




    Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
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    lawajava
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    Re: Problems multi-track recording drums using Roland V-Drums mapped to Addictive Drums 2 2016/03/11 22:27:03 (permalink)
    Quick answer to your question above. Yes, I route MIDI and recording MIDI to Sonar. I listen to audio outs of the V-drum (in my case TD-12) which I have plugged in to the mixer. So I'm hearing the TD-12 brain when recording. On playback I can listen to the MIDI through any drum patch, such as AD2 or Session Drummer 3, assuming I had the MIDI recorded right for that VST.

    Not as satisfactory as playing with the actual VST sound, but very satisfactory in that the timing and performance experience is latency and trouble free.

    Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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    Billy86
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    Re: Problems multi-track recording drums using Roland V-Drums mapped to Addictive Drums 2 2016/03/12 17:55:08 (permalink)
    lawajava
    Quick answer to your question above. Yes, I route MIDI and recording MIDI to Sonar. I listen to audio outs of the V-drum (in my case TD-12) which I have plugged in to the mixer. So I'm hearing the TD-12 brain when recording. On playback I can listen to the MIDI through any drum patch, such as AD2 or Session Drummer 3, assuming I had the MIDI recorded right for that VST.

    Wow. Never thought of this. Sounds like great idea! I'll definitely give it a try! It's like direct monitoring on steroids without the latency headache! Thanks!

    Not as satisfactory as playing with the actual VST sound, but very satisfactory in that the timing and performance experience is latency and trouble free.

    Do I have to do anything to the settings in my TD11 brain to allow it to send MIDI externally AND trigger the brain's internal sound module?

    Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
    #7
    lawajava
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    Re: Problems multi-track recording drums using Roland V-Drums mapped to Addictive Drums 2 2016/03/12 18:34:10 (permalink)
    Well, pick a kit in the TD-11 brain. You'll now be able to hear that either through your direct headphones or the audio outs routed to your mixer. In my TD-12 I can additionally set the MIDI out channel separately for each kit piece (edge or actual piece) as needed. But just plain MIDI out works as well if you're recording your MIDI drum performance to one combined MIDI track. (I should say I happen to prefer recording the drums to about 6-7 different MIDI tracks than just to one combined since it makes editing or assigning other kit sounds super easy). But recording it all to one track works for getting the MIDI events all there and useable by AD2 etc.

    So maybe no you don't need to do anything special, unless you want to separate your MIDI tracks on record as I do. Then it's a one time set up in the TD brain.

    Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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    Billy86
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    Re: Problems multi-track recording drums using Roland V-Drums mapped to Addictive Drums 2 2016/03/16 00:53:37 (permalink)
    Hey lawajava… your idea to monitor my drums through my mixer is working great. I’m running Sonar audio out of the 2i4 into the mixer and can mix that level with the level of the TD11 drums coming into the mixer in my headphones, which I have coming out of the mixer’s headphone out. No latency! Yay! I see what you’re saying: I’m hearing an internal sound from the TD11 brain, while at the same time sending MIDI to trigger the AD2 drums in Sonar. Very cool concept.
     
    Running into a couple of other issues, tho. One is, there seems to be some sort of slapback going on in my headphones that sounds close to what you get with latency, as if the AD2 sounds I’m triggering with V-Drums are following closely on the heels of the internal sound coming from the TD11 brain. Like I’m hearing both my TD kit sounds and the Sonar AD2 kit sounds in my mixer headphones, some measure of milliseconds apart. If I mute all the MIDI tracks during record, it goes away, but then I can’t meter the tracks.
     
    Also, I seem to be triggering more than one MIDI event per trigger strike, like a superfast machine gun burst. It doesn’t last, it’s just really quick right after the initial pad strike. I can look in the piano roll to see the midi events and there’s often more than one, when there should only be a single event, like a snare strike, or a kick drum strike. I reduced the sensitivity on my drum pads to try to avoid inadvertent stick/beater bounces on the pads, figuring they might have been triggering MIDI events, but it doesn’t seem to help.
     
    Any ideas? Oh, and I see you’re in Seattle. Me too.  Really appreciate the assist.

    Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
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