Processor Scheduling In Vista

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John
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/19 19:11:09 (permalink)
In this case I would advise yes turn it off. I would check too if performance is better or worse. This is the main reason it can be turned off.

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John
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jcatena
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/19 21:28:10 (permalink)
> This is where we part because it does. Read the thread I posted toward the last few pages it is fully explained. Noel says the same thing I am saying.

Uff, after a lot of reading, I dind't find a word from Noel. I also found some mess there that I'm not willing to fix, LOL.
I red about the issue with Ableton Live. Looks like one of the many problems the new GDI in Vista introduced. See. Windows APIs provide mechanisms to avoid calling the app to redraw windows when restoring, moving, etc, keeping the window image in memory. In Vista, in order to implement the f*king WPF and Aero, all hardware acceleration in GDI was removed, and GDI was rewritten to redirect calls to WPF. That's why it paints much slower than XP, basically. With all that, many bugs were introduced, as proven by the amont of applications that were broken upon Vista introduction. One of these bugs are that in some conditions Windows call apps to redraw windows innecessarily. In the case of this bug, Aero may help because it keeps an additional copy of windows images so that the buggy code to use the other image copy is not called. Seeing this, I agree that Aero may help to avoid triggering some bugs, LOL.
Looks like in Windows 7 they fixed a lot of things, but GDI is still 100% software calling WPF. They want WPF to be used at the cost of penalizing existing software.

Jose Catena
DIGIWAVES, S.L.
#32
John
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/19 21:46:09 (permalink)
after a lot of reading, I dind't find a word from Noel
I didn't say he was on that thread but he has said what I am saying that Areo helps the performance of Sonar. I can't find the thread where he said it but I don't lie either.

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John
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Freddie H
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 02:27:14 (permalink)
Hi Jcatena!


I'm glad that you around, and I have read all you have said, even though I disagree most part of it.
I don't know what you try to accomplices by saying all this?

And Jose, if you are a software manufacture as you say you are, you know all this and the great importance having AERO turned ON on VISTA Windows 7. All graphic calls go thru GPU-chip /AERO on VISTA and Windows 7 platform.
Anyway, even though if you don't believe all us saying that AERO needs to be turn on.... you can find more reliable information yourself here, direct from Microsoft headquarters.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/aa905088.aspx



GPU chip manufacturers

http://www.nvidia.com/page/technology_vista_home.html


http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-3000/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-3000-series.aspx


Extra Info: Personally I like NVIDIA but it was in beginning, together with Microsoft, ATI that develop AERO for VISTA.

Regards
Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/07/20 03:29:37


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#34
jcatena
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 03:00:48 (permalink)
Freddie, thanks for your effort, but I din't find anything about Aero in those links.
All of them refer to WDDM drivers and technology, that is there and works with or without Aero.

Look for example this:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/windows_vista_aero_glass_performance/page3.asp
I saw similar results for gdi based apps in the past, I don't find a link now, but I'm sure you'll find if you have more patience than me.

Remember that I am not recommending to turn off Aero either, just saying that turning Aero off does not desactivate hardware acceleration as was being said here, only the desktop stops using it directly. l also admitted that there may be side effects, like some apps that are called to redraw sometimes instead of refresing the window from memory, but this is because problems in GDI implementation in Vista, as it does not happen in XP, for example, that obviously does not have Aero. For most apps there is no difference with or without Aero, though. I also agreed that turning Aero off may increase CPU usage (by the desktop, other apps drawing is identical, except if hit by some bug as explained earlier).

post edited by jcatena - 2009/07/20 03:16:28

Jose Catena
DIGIWAVES, S.L.
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Freddie H
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 03:16:54 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: jcatena

Freddie, thanks for your answer, but I din't find anything about Aero in those links.
All of them refer to WDDM drivers and technology, that is there and works with or without Aero.

Look for example this:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/windows_vista_aero_glass_performance/page3.asp
I saw similar results for gdi based apps in the past, I don't find a link now, but I'm sure you'll find if search enough.




Hi Jose!

I'm not 100 % sure but those test are made before even SP1 on VISTA. Its big deal because they made all different on VISTA platform even on SP1. Now on VISTA SP2 everything has change again more like WINDOWS 7 structure...
And Jose, you as a software manufacture, you know all this and the great importance having AERO turned ON on VISTA / Windows 7.
All graphic calls go thru GPU-chip /AERO on VISTA and Windows 7 platform.



Regards
Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/07/20 03:17:38


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#36
jcatena
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 03:31:39 (permalink)
> Now on VISTA SP2 everything has change again more like WINDOWS 7 structure...
Windows 7 is also as I say.

> And Jose, you as a software manufacture, you know all this and the great importance having AERO turned ON on VISTA / Windows 7.
Because I know I'm trying to explain you that turning off aero does not turn off GPU acceleration except for the desktop presentation. Drawing functions either in 2D and 3D, accelerated or not, work the same with or without Aero.

> All graphic calls go thru GPU-chip /AERO on VISTA and Windows 7 platform.
Not through Aero, yes through WPM, WDDM & GPU regardles of Aero. Aero is just the desktop code, that uses Direct3D instead of GDI to paint the desktop and manage windows. When an app calls a function to draw something, it does not go through Aero.
Run some benchmarks if you don't believe me.
post edited by jcatena - 2009/07/20 03:34:50

Jose Catena
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#37
Freddie H
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 03:44:51 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: jcatena



Remember that I am not recommending to turn off Aero either, just saying that turning Aero off does not desactivate hardware acceleration,





Agree! Finally we can agree on something Jose!


No one had said that it disable the hardware acceleration by disable AERO.
AERO needs to be active on VISTA because otherwise Program's and applications will not function correctly on VISTA platform.

And this will even be more important on Windows 7 because all graphic will ONLY go thru the GPU in the near future. Not yet, but in the near future, 100 % GPU and 0 % CPU will be in use of all GUI graphic related programs and environments on Windows 7 platform. Then it will be even more essential to have a great graphic card that can really perform.

Regards
Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/07/20 03:45:29


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#38
jcatena
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 04:13:21 (permalink)
This is fun because I have been saying the same all the time. My first post that John discussed was:
>It is true that Aero makes use of the GPU.
>But disabling Aero does not disable the GPU, nor DirectX. All hardware acceleration is still available for any program that uses it.
>I'm not recommending to have Aero enabled or disabled, since Aero makes more use of the GPU, disabling it may actually result in more CPU usage...

And what I don't agree is what John says:
>Under XP or with Aero off in Vista all the calls go through the CPU not the GPU. With Aero on any windows app is using the GPU as if it were like a game.
>The bottom line that needs to be spelled out clearly is that Aero is the engine that allows all windows apps to run as if they all had direct access to the GPU because they do under Aero.
This is not correct.

> Not yet, but in the near future, 100 % GPU and 0 % CPU will be in use of all GUI graphic related programs and environments on Windows 7 platform
You're dreaming now. I don't have time now, but for now the opposite is happening. In XP the GPU was more used to accelerate drawing, now it is 100% software except the very last memory image presentation.

I'm leaving, I have to record some guitars and trumpets today, see you later.
post edited by jcatena - 2009/07/20 04:18:24

Jose Catena
DIGIWAVES, S.L.
#39
Freddie H
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 07:58:43 (permalink)
Its actually wrong what you saying...Jose.... but it doesn't matter
Also I don't know all the answers on “mumbo jumbo” technical stuff about direct X. I'm not an expert on this field but clearly; end of the day;
having saying all this in all those posts! It is obvious that having AERO ON makes your CPU don't tax as much as having it OFF.



As someone already said and experience, having AERO OFF gave him more then 100 % more CPU-use in SONAR on the same project. I think that's rap it up the great benefits with AERO turned ON.

Regards
Freddie


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#40
syntheticpop
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 13:10:01 (permalink)
wow, you guys need a referee?
#41
Freddie H
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 13:18:27 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: syntheticpop

wow, you guys need a referee?

hehe...


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#42
Richard Fey
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 13:27:09 (permalink)
Who cares the arguing..if you like it use it, if it helps with it off, don't use it.

 
#43
Freddie H
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 13:32:02 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: Richard Fey

Who cares the arguing..if you like it use it, if it helps with it off, don't use it.



I like you, you're funny!
So if it helps with off... you shall have it on anyway! Hehe...

Regards
Freddie
post edited by Freddie H - 2009/07/20 13:35:44


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#44
Richard Fey
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 13:37:39 (permalink)
What do ya mean, funny? Let me understand this cause, I don't know maybe it's me, I'm a little ****ed up maybe, but I'm funny how? I mean, funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh... I'm here to ****in' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

 
#45
Richard Fey
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 13:49:42 (permalink)
That's a joeke, btw. lol A movie line from Goodfellows.

 
#46
Freddie H
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RE: Processor Scheduling In Vista 2009/07/20 14:02:12 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Richard Fey

That's a joeke, btw. lol A movie line from Goodfellows.


That's cool Richard my friend!

Regards
Freddie




-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#47
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