DPTrainor
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Producing Backing Tracks for covers
I have two questions to throw out here. I am producing backing tracks (audio and midi) for live band performance. Obective is to reproduce cover tunes as close as resonable. These songs do not have midi files available.
1. For bass guitar should I have bass guitarist listen to original cover audio while recording the same bass part in audio? Or will listening to orginal song while playing tend to distract from thier playing?
2. Can I / should I also try to write an accurate bass part in music notation software, then translate that to midi and use VSTi bass intrument to reproduce?
I am the drummer and will be playing to a click track.
Thanks.
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Guest
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/13 12:14:53
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Just have the bassist learn the part. Most aren't too hard.
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buckybeen
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/13 12:36:16
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We've also had a lot of luck with having our keyboard player laying down the bass part. He has some great patches, and the results are excellent.
"I think you've got something there. I'll wait outside until you clean it up."
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DPTrainor
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/13 12:55:53
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10Ten
Just have the bassist learn the part. Most aren't too hard.
Yes, would have to learn the part exaxtly. I guess I was thinking since this would be the first track layed down, bass player would need some reference point - hence the idea of listening to orginal song while recording his part.
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DPTrainor
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/13 12:59:03
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buckybeen
We've also had a lot of luck with having our keyboard player laying down the bass part. He has some great patches, and the results are excellent.
Good point. Maybe have keyboard player lay down bass part. Would I miss and bass guitar playing nuances?
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RTGraham
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/13 14:21:01
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DPTrainor
buckybeen
We've also had a lot of luck with having our keyboard player laying down the bass part. He has some great patches, and the results are excellent.
Good point. Maybe have keyboard player lay down bass part. Would I miss and bass guitar playing nuances?
Depends on the song, but most likely, yes, you would miss some nuances. Unless you're working with a keyboard player who is *extremely* proficient with something like Trilogy or Scarbee and knows how to trigger (or at least program afterwards) the realistic transitions and bass-specific articulations, you'll be missing something. I'm a *much* better keyboard player than I am a bass player, but I pull out a bass when I need an electric bass part - it's quicker and more realistic to re-acquaint myself with the fingerboard than to try and make it sound real on keyboard. As far as tracking to the original recording, that's going to depend on the bass player. If they're good enough, then it will be helpful without being distracting. If they're less comfortable with their instrument or with the studio environment, then it may make their playing a little too "thinky" instead of allowing them to groove. You won't know until you try it. Same with preparing notation - a good enough player will appreciate it and will probably glance at it occasionally for reference; but a less proficient player won't. Hope that's helpful in some way.
~~~~~~~~~~ Russell T. Graham Keys, Vocals, Songwriting, Production russell DOT graham AT rtgproductions DOT com www DOT myspace DOT com SLASH russelltgraham
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DPTrainor
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/13 15:51:11
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Thanks Russell - that was indeed very helpful. Question: When you laydown each instrument track one at a time, as opposed to recodring an entire band (which I dion't have), do you loose some of the groove. I was thiinking of recording bass first to place a foundation down, then rythm guitar, then keyboard. In the end, the backing track would have just bass, rynthm guitar and keyboard as accompaniment to lead guitar, vocals and drums. I would be playing drums to a click track. I am hoping we can do it in such a way that we can exactly (to extent it is possible) cover the song without it sounding sterile. That ked me to the idea of for atleast the first 2 tracks bass and rythm guitar to use the orginal recording as a reference to get the feel incorporated from the start and build from there. Want to do this in a way that it sounds most realalistic. - Dan
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RTGraham
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/16 12:31:36
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DPTrainor
Thanks Russell - that was indeed very helpful. Question: When you laydown each instrument track one at a time, as opposed to recodring an entire band (which I dion't have), do you loose some of the groove. I was thiinking of recording bass first to place a foundation down, then rythm guitar, then keyboard. In the end, the backing track would have just bass, rynthm guitar and keyboard as accompaniment to lead guitar, vocals and drums. I would be playing drums to a click track. I am hoping we can do it in such a way that we can exactly (to extent it is possible) cover the song without it sounding sterile. That ked me to the idea of for atleast the first 2 tracks bass and rythm guitar to use the orginal recording as a reference to get the feel incorporated from the start and build from there. Want to do this in a way that it sounds most realalistic. - Dan
Depends on who you are and how you play. If you're Prince or Stevie Wonder, then you don't lose the groove by recording the parts one at a time.  I would suggest laying down a "placeholder" drum track first, or better yet, play drums while he tracks bass; otherwise you'll be forced to lock to his groove, instead of vice versa. Then that should help make it easier to do the other instruments one by one.
~~~~~~~~~~ Russell T. Graham Keys, Vocals, Songwriting, Production russell DOT graham AT rtgproductions DOT com www DOT myspace DOT com SLASH russelltgraham
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DPTrainor
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/16 21:53:01
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Thanks. Makes sense. Record Bass and Drums together - lock down the groove first. Build the foundation for rest of instrumaents - which will probably be just piano, as Guitar and Vocals will be Live. Actually drums will be live also. Only Bass and Piano will be backing tracks. The other issue I see is that I have a hard time playing drum part without melody and vocals to give me reference. That is why I was thinking we should listen to orginal cover ausio while laying down backing tracks - that way we more acrurately be faithful to orginal - but maybe listening to orginal song and recorsing our parts would be distracting and be less groove-ful. Not sure. -Thanks, Dan
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RTGraham
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/17 13:52:52
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DPTrainor
Thanks. Makes sense. Record Bass and Drums together - lock down the groove first. Build the foundation for rest of instrumaents - which will probably be just piano, as Guitar and Vocals will be Live. Actually drums will be live also. Only Bass and Piano will be backing tracks. The other issue I see is that I have a hard time playing drum part without melody and vocals to give me reference. That is why I was thinking we should listen to orginal cover ausio while laying down backing tracks - that way we more acrurately be faithful to orginal - but maybe listening to orginal song and recorsing our parts would be distracting and be less groove-ful. Not sure. -Thanks, Dan
Hearing the original recording while recording your own parts won't necessarily be less "groove-ful," depending on how comfortable you both are playing to a click or to a track. No less grooveful than doing your live show with track reinforcement, if you think about it. The real question is whether you need to be recording at a steady tempo. Keeping the tempo consistent throughout the song (by recording to a click, etc.) makes it easier to do things like cut-and-paste or copy-and-paste on the grid, in case you should have to fly any duplicate parts (like background vocals) or edit sections. You'll probably find that at least some of the songs you're covering were *not* originally recorded with a click, so if you want to play along with those *and* keep a steady tempo, you'll need to AudioSnap the original recording, use the Set Now function along with locating the transient markers on downbeats to create a tempo map, then tell the audio clip of the original recording to automatically follow tempo changes, and delete all the tempo changes in the song so that everything is one tempo. (Then you'll probably want to bounce the AudioSnapped clip to a new clip, as the offline stretching algorithms yield smoother results than the realtime preview.) It's a lot of extra work, but I've done projects for TV where it was the ideal solution. It's up to you whether the extra work is worth it in this case.
~~~~~~~~~~ Russell T. Graham Keys, Vocals, Songwriting, Production russell DOT graham AT rtgproductions DOT com www DOT myspace DOT com SLASH russelltgraham
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mcourter
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 10:52:40
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I wouldn't play the original WHILE recording the bass track (or any other track). Use the original to learn the part, sure, but record without it.
A few guitars, a couple of basses, a MIDI controller, a mandolin, a banjo, a mic, PodFarm2 Unbridled Enthusiasm My music: www.Soundclick.com/markcourter
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 11:48:35
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There is a site.... somewhere on the net, that has the midi for almost every song. Another user here, that I am aware of uses this quite frequently to create his music.
Doing what you are suggesting is a way to have tight backing tracks. I remember seeing a band one time that was 2 guys...bass, guitar, and both sang. They had sequenced their music in Cakewalk and it was done very well. The music was created by them during the week and then on weekends they went out to gig. The music was very close to the original tune.... everything they did was cover stuff.
Keys, strings, drums, guitar switching and even BGV harmonies were handled my midi control.... it was quite amazing, and even more so that this was about 20 years ago.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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skullsession
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 11:52:25
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DPTrainor
I have two questions to throw out here. I am producing backing tracks (audio and midi) for live band performance. Obective is to reproduce cover tunes as close as resonable. These songs do not have midi files available.
1. For bass guitar should I have bass guitarist listen to original cover audio while recording the same bass part in audio? Or will listening to orginal song while playing tend to distract from thier playing?
2. Can I / should I also try to write an accurate bass part in music notation software, then translate that to midi and use VSTi bass intrument to reproduce?
I am the drummer and will be playing to a click track.
Thanks.
Sorry to party poop....but did you obtain permission to record these songs?
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 12:01:34
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good point skull..... technically and legally...you are supposed to obtain the licensing rights to record another artist's copyrighted material.....and pay for that usage. hummmmmm.... are all those cover bands are breaking the law..... nope not really. Well, I played in a cover band...lots of them actually..... if you record a tune for commercial usage (as in your case) you are supposed to pay. A cover band doesn't record it...they perform it live... there is a difference. And BTW...the club (venue) does have to pay the performance royalties for the use of all the music they use in the club, from the jukebox to the bands. To be 100% safe from prosecution.... it might be worth checking into the legal licensing of the tunes..... but you will find it might be better to get a few other buds and start a band.....or do original material....or be an outlaw and risk the consequences.....
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2009/09/23 12:02:50
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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ShiftingKevin
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 12:27:35
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Doesn't the law only govern profitable sales? I've heard of bands including cover songs in albums and giving them away as demos to avoid the royalties process.
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Spaceduck
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 13:26:10
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ShiftingKevin
Doesn't the law only govern profitable sales? I've heard of bands including cover songs in albums and giving them away as demos to avoid the royalties process.
I think that's the name of the game. You can sue anyone for anything these days, but much like robbing someone's house, if there's nothing there you just look like a putz. I used to do what the OP described for a living (to use the term loosely). I think I made around $100 bucks on each tune. If Elton John, U2, Van Halen, and bunch of others got together and filed a class action lawsuit against me, I'd be happy to hand over the $500 profits for a few autographed pictures.  DPTrainor
1. For bass guitar should I have bass guitarist listen to original cover audio while recording the same bass part in audio? Or will listening to orginal song while playing tend to distract from thier playing?
Listening to the original can be pretty distracting. I'd suggest keeping the original just long enough to get the tempo/drum tracks recorded, then mute the audio & let each player fill in the parts fresh.
2. Can I / should I also try to write an accurate bass part in music notation software, then translate that to midi and use VSTi bass intrument to reproduce?
For a live gig I think midi bass will sound fine (unless it's a really intense bass part like Chili Peppers, etc). You could probably get away with midi for everything except guitars & drums.
post edited by Spaceduck - 2009/09/23 13:37:11
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skullsession
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 13:36:28
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Copied from HFA's website:
But I'm only making a few copies/giving the CDs away/not making much money. Isn't that "fair use"? No. Making a limited number of copies or giving away CDs is not "Fair Use". "Fair Use" is a limitation on the rights granted under U.S. Copyright Law that allows reproduction of a copyrighted work for certain purposes, such as criticism, news reporting, teaching, and research. The distinction between "Fair Use" and infringement is often not clear and it may be advisable to consult an attorney. Willful copyright infringement can carry statutory damages up to $150,000 per infringement; but perhaps more importantly, if you liked the song enough to include it on your recording, don't you think the people that wrote that song should get paid?
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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skullsession
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 13:38:50
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Duck....you sadden me.
If we, as writers, don't care....who will?
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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Spaceduck
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 13:41:01
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Yeah like I said, you can get sued for anything these days. But I'd love to see HFA try to get $150k out of me. They might recoup their lawyer's 15min consultation fee, but that's about it (and they know it).
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skullsession
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 13:47:59
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You know...it may be that if the recording is strictly used for live performance, with no intent to distribute copies in any form (audio or video/audio), the club's payment of performance royalties covers this situation. It could plausably be argued that your recorded copy is considered "part of the performance." That would make sense.....but sometimes the law makes no sense.
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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skullsession
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 13:54:30
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Spaceduck
Yeah like I said, you can get sued for anything these days. But I'd love to see HFA try to get $150k out of me. They might recoup their lawyer's 15min consultation fee, but that's about it (and they know it).
What I hear you saying is that since you don't have the money, that makes it ok? Surely you're not saying that....
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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Spaceduck
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 15:22:12
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skullsession
What I hear you saying is that since you don't have the money, that makes it ok?
Surely you're not saying that....
Yikes, not at all. What I'm saying is that money determines the severity of the 'crime'. I've never thought of cover tunes in a negative light. As a songwriter, I would be thrilled if someone covered my tunes. As a performer, aint no one gonna stop me from rippin loose Mony Mony if the need arises. As a person in the audience, I love to hear a familiar tune. On a small scale, at all 3 of these levels, I think a good time can be had by all. The only people who get pissed are the lawyers. To me, if gobs of money are not changing hands, then why would anyone get uptight? And here's where the logic of $$ defines what's morally right & wrong... if someone makes a profit large enough to chase after in court, then they deserve to be fried. But if it's just a few bucks, then there's no logical point in chasing damages you can't collect, and I'd say that's an indication that you're getting uptight over nothing. Too often we see copyright law in black & white (as they would have us believe), but in reality there's no crime in the act of playing someone else's song. The crime is if you exploit it for money without acknowledging the songwriter, in which case I'm behind you 100% ...I think Vanilla Ice should be strung up by his thumbs 
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Beagle
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 15:43:20
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To me, if gobs of money are not changing hands, then why would anyone get uptight? oh, but they do! and they get VERY uptight about it! the problem is that they don't see it as someone who is doing something not making any money at it, the problem is that they see it as potential loss of their profit! they will take people to court if they feel they have lost enough potential profit by your actions regardless of whether you think you can pay or not. If you were to release a FREE CD with all Beatles cover tunes and distributed 10,000 copies and didn't pay royalties on them prior to distribution - you would be taken to court and the amount of damages determined that you would owe would depend on what they could say that you have damaged their potential sales not only of the free CD's you distributed, but also how much that CUT sales of other legitimately licensed CDs. I know, ducky, that you're saying someone with a small distribution will not even get on their radar - that may be true, but why risk your house, your car, your guitars, your studio equipment, your 401k account, and any other "liquifiable" asset you have any equity in? because if you are taken to court and lose, the lawyers WILL completely liquify you and garnish your future wages.
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Beagle
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 15:47:15
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ShiftingKevin
Doesn't the law only govern profitable sales? I've heard of bands including cover songs in albums and giving them away as demos to avoid the royalties process.
This is probably THE biggest misconception of all copyright laws. It does not have anything to do with how much money is made or not, that is completely irrelevant to the use of copyrighted material.
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Spaceduck
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 16:42:46
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Beagle
To me, if gobs of money are not changing hands, then why would anyone get uptight?
oh, but they do! and they get VERY uptight about it! the problem is that they don't see it as someone who is doing something not making any money at it, the problem is that they see it as potential loss of their profit! they will take people to court if they feel they have lost enough potential profit by your actions regardless of whether you think you can pay or not.
If you were to release a FREE CD with all Beatles cover tunes and distributed 10,000 copies and didn't pay royalties on them prior to distribution - you would be taken to court and the amount of damages determined that you would owe would depend on what they could say that you have damaged their potential sales not only of the free CD's you distributed, but also how much that CUT sales of other legitimately licensed CDs.
I know, ducky, that you're saying someone with a small distribution will not even get on their radar - that may be true, but why risk your house, your car, your guitars, your studio equipment, your 401k account, and any other "liquifiable" asset you have any equity in? because if you are taken to court and lose, the lawyers WILL completely liquify you and garnish your future wages.
That's what scares me: the idea that someone can sue someone else for an outrageous amout not fitting the crime...and win! Like that $3 million dollar cup of coffee at McDonalds. At least in the coffee case there was actual, tangible proof of physical suffering inflicted. But in the case of "potential loss of profit", sheesh a smooth talking lawyer can take that as a blank check. I don't feel strongly enough about this to be a crusader, but it does burn me up. I see the music industry suffering as a whole because soon every kid will be afraid to record Smoke On the Water. How else do we learn how to play music if it's not by imitating our mentors?
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skullsession
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 16:52:35
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Spaceduck
skullsession
What I hear you saying is that since you don't have the money, that makes it ok?
Surely you're not saying that....
Yikes, not at all. What I'm saying is that money determines the severity of the 'crime'.
I've never thought of cover tunes in a negative light. As a songwriter, I would be thrilled if someone covered my tunes. As a performer, aint no one gonna stop me from rippin loose Mony Mony if the need arises. As a person in the audience, I love to hear a familiar tune.
On a small scale, at all 3 of these levels, I think a good time can be had by all. The only people who get pissed are the lawyers.
To me, if gobs of money are not changing hands, then why would anyone get uptight? And here's where the logic of $$ defines what's morally right & wrong... if someone makes a profit large enough to chase after in court, then they deserve to be fried. But if it's just a few bucks, then there's no logical point in chasing damages you can't collect, and I'd say that's an indication that you're getting uptight over nothing.
Too often we see copyright law in black & white (as they would have us believe), but in reality there's no crime in the act of playing someone else's song. The crime is if you exploit it for money without acknowledging the songwriter, in which case I'm behind you 100% ...I think Vanilla Ice should be strung up by his thumbs
Ok. I understand your points....to a point. And I think we agree to a point. To me...regardless of how much money we're talking about, it's the same crime. I mean, if you broke into my house and stole my $50 TV but left my $2,000 LCD, I'd still have a right to be upset. The way I see it, you'd be guilty of breaking/entering, burglary, etc. regardless of how much the stuff was worth. I'm just saying...if there is a clear way to do it right, as writers and players, WE of all people should be going out of our way to show respect for those who wrote the song in question. And it REALLY is cheap to get permission. I'm not preaching....I'm just discussing. All that being said....the more I think of it, I'm sure the OP is in the clear as long as the clubs are paying their performance royalties. Still...just to satisfy my own curiosity, I'll email my contact at ASCAP to see how THEY see it. After all...they are the folks who'd come after us....
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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Beagle
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 17:00:35
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Ah, but learning to play it and recording it are two completely different things (i.e. Smoke on the Water)! Besides that, recording your version of it on your computer without distribution (even to soundclick) is acceptable use as long as you don't give it to someone else! Not necessarily pounding on you, ducky, but these arguments always amaze me from the standpoint of musicians wanting to be able to freely distribute recorded cover songs because if any one of us were to ever make it in the 'big time' record deal - we'd not want people recording and distributing our copyrighted songs for free, either. Actually, it would be even less likely that we, as musicians and copyright holders, would likely give up our rights to royalties if we didn't make it "BIG TIME" in the record industry, but we made it "small time" - big enough to make a decent living off of, but not big enough to rival George Strait or Brittnay. then each distribution of our song would hurt us even more in the long run and could potentially stop us from earning our living if enough copies of our song were distributed without payment to our pocketbooks. I have an aquaintence in the recording industry who has his own independent label. He makes a living good enough to send all of his 7 children to college, has a few decent ammenities, but he's not living rich like Paul or Bono. He has an "upper middle income" from his songwriting. He will be the first to tell you that he does NOT approve of anyone recording/distributing his songs without paying royalties. That's his livelyhood - his job. my job is an electrical engineer - his job is songwriting. take away his royalties and you take food out of his children's mouths.
post edited by Beagle - 2009/09/23 17:01:36
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Spaceduck
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 17:48:52
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I see yall's points, and I agree: the bottom line is that there's a "right way" to do it ...and a "not so right way" to do it. If there were a proper channel for handling these things, I don't think there would be any problem. For example, you just submit a request to record a cover tune, declare your anticipated revenue & scope of audience, and you get immediate approval or denial. That would be awesome. But I had a different experience which has probably coloured my attitude a bit. A few years back I did a loose adaptation of a Queen tune & figured to be safe I should get permission before doing anything with it. I found a business contact on Brian May's website and sent a short but polite note. I got a somewhat snotty reply from his manager saying something to the effect that they don't want to be bothered. He closed with, I quote, "I don't see why Brian would be interested in this at all." Yowch! So anyway, aside from being a real bummer, that told me that perhaps the big time artists really don't want to be bothered, and unless you plan on making a lot of $$ you shouldn't waste peoples' time. I know this is a hyper-cynical view based on 1 experience, but it seems to make sense in my head. If I hit it big, I wouldn't want 100 emails per day from kids asking if they can cover my songs at the senior prom. I might even hire a snotty manager to give them the brush off & not bother me  That's why I figure the small fries needn't worry. But it'll be interesting to see what your associate says, skull. Definitely report back on this. Beags... hey I'm just thinking aloud here... based on my Queen story & your friend with the independent label... Maybe it's fair to say that HUGE celebrities probably won't want to be bothered, but people & labels that are making a modest income will probably be offended. If so, the answer is simple. Only Beatles covers from now on, eh?
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Beagle
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/23 22:35:30
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But I had a different experience which has probably coloured my attitude a bit. A few years back I did a loose adaptation of a Queen tune & figured to be safe I should get permission before doing anything with it. I found a business contact on Brian May's website and sent a short but polite note. I got a somewhat snotty reply from his manager saying something to the effect that they don't want to be bothered. He closed with, I quote, "I don't see why Brian would be interested in this at all." Yowch!
I can see where that would sour anyone's view of the business and I would have been upset by it as well if that were me. But I would bet that was a complete miscommunication. He probably thought you were trying to get Brian to allow you to co-write a new mix or something, not try to get licensing for recording a cover of his song (that or he was a complete moron who didn't know how the licensing/royalties business works!) you see...you don't even need their permission directly to record a cover. you just have to pay the royalty fees to whomever they have representing them for licensing and probably 95% of artists don't deal with that directly, they have a licensing agent like Harry Fox Agency handle all of the licensing. Technically you don't need anyone's permission to record and distribute ANY copyrighted song. The problem, however, is that you do have to have an agreement with the copyright holder OR his/her/their representative on what the royatlies are to be paid. so if you can't get THAT agreement then you can't use the tune. this is just like when the McCain/Palin campaign used "Barracuda" by Heart as part of their campaign representing Palin. Heart was furious that the Republican Party used that song as her campaign song because Ann and Nancy are liberals, but they couldn't stop them legally from using it as long as the royalties were agreed upon and paid to Heart's representative ahead of time (it's actually a lot more complicated than that, but you get the picture). but for your suggestion to use only Beatles covers, duckster, I would say really that probably doesn't hold water, either, actually. What I've found in talking with people about this is that it's only the artists who AREN'T getting royalties from anything of their own that think it's OK to use cover songs however they want! Those who ARE getting royalties don't think it's OK! find me any artist in the Billboard top 100, any genre, and ask them if they think it's OK for you to record one of their songs and distribute 1000 CD's of it but not pay them and I guarentee you that less than 1% of them would say it's OK. The rest would want you to pay the licensing fees up front and would want you to contact their licensing agent, not them directly. And please don't think I'm upset with you, buddy, we're just having a good conversation about an interesting subject. quack all you want!!! PS - Harry Fox (HFA) represents Brian May on several songs: http://www.harryfox.com/songfile/termsofuse/publictermsofuse.do (type in Brian May for the Artist and you get a list of about a dozen songs of his). all you would have to have done is pay HFA the standard licensing fee and then distribute! you never had the need to try to contact snotty managers!
post edited by Beagle - 2009/09/23 23:03:28
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Spaceduck
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Re:Producing Backing Tracks for covers
2009/09/24 07:58:08
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No probs, Beags! If I can't get some good opposing viewpoints, then what use is there in quacking?
I've learned a lot in this thread already. Particularly of interest is the bit about not requiring permission as long as royalties are paid. Yup, I remember the Heart/Palin story (as well as every 4 years when some Republican candidate tries to use "Born in the USA") but never got the facts. Usually, out of courtesy I suppose, the candidate withdraws the song from the campaign which led me to believe that the artist had the final say. But if that's not true, then wow this opens up a whole can of worms.
So, just to take a wild example, I could write a song about cute fluffy bunnies, and someone can use that song in a twisted porno flick as long as they pay royalties? Not that it would ever happen (and not that I have anything against twisted porno flicks) but that could make me question my desire to release music.
Anyway, thanks for that tip about Harry Fox & Brian May. Just for the record, I always intended to get permission/rights before releasing that tune, which is the main reason I took it off the net and buried it. Now I can resurrect that project! Well, prolly not... the song kinda sucked anyhoo.
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