Project5 Development Ending

Dear Project5 Customer,

We regret to inform you that as of today there will be no further development on Project5. It will be officially discontinued and moving forward, support will only be offered via email. This was a difficult decision, and one which we carefully considered for a long time. Unfortunately, there was no way we could continue supporting this product at the level we felt necessary. While we were able to attract a loyal community of Project5 users, we weren’t able to garner enough commercial success to make Project5 a viable product.

To all the loyal Project5 users—we truly appreciate the support you have given us over the years. We have found that the Project5 community are among the most engaged and passionate people in our Cakewalk family. We have enjoyed the active dialog over the years—and good or bad—we have always listened to your feedback. We have learned a great deal from Project5 development and we hope to translate some of its strengths into future Cakewalk products. We hope that you will remain part of the Cakewalk family moving forward.

In that spirit, we would like to extend a special offer to all our Project5 customers. Through May 17th, registered Project5 customers can crossgrade to SONAR 8 Studio for only $99/£69/€79 or you can upgrade to SONAR 8 Producer for $249/£199/€229. In both cases, you will save $100/£80/€90 off your regular price, and this is a greater discount than the current special pricing that we are running for Cakewalk customers. With SONAR 8, you access all the included Project5 instruments and effects, and you can still continue to use Project5 inside SONAR via ReWire. With SONAR 8 and Project5 side-by-side, you will have a robust studio set-up that incorporates the best of both worlds—instant music creation tools powered by the leading digital audio workstation in the industry.

To take advantage of this upgrade offer, chose one below.

Upgrade to SONAR 8 Studio today
Upgrade to SONAR 8 Producer today

We thank you again for your support and we hope you will continue to be a part of Cakewalk family for many years to come.

Sincerely,

Cakewalk

Well,

RIP the mystery of P5. It is finally solved. Ah, all the wasted thread hours.

Good to know, anyway, and hope a lot of the functuality of P5 migrates to SONAR 9.

@

Ah well, the best product in the Cakewalk line bites the dust, IMO.

The issue with functionality from P5 going to Sonar is that it is unlikely to have the same flow in Sonar that it does in P5, purely because they are different in the way they approach things - maybe S9 will see more streamlining in it's methodology, rather than new plugins. Personally, I think Sonar could do to be rewritten/re-thought in the way that Sonar was in comparison to Pro Audio, streamlining the workflow.

This doesn't surprise me. P5, as awesome as it was, just never "caught on" for whatever reason.

Any chance the remaining instruments and effects bundled with P5 will be further developed standalone or as a package? Honestly, I use P5 instruments/effects in Cakewalk more than I used P5 itself.

I really enjoy the plugz and would pay for upgrades if they came!

So..... when's V3 with multicore support coming out? I have a new hex-core I want to put to test.

No, seriously.... long live Velocity, nPulse and PSYN-II !!!

Finally.

A very big thank you for finally letting us know. :)

I love SONAR and will continue to use it.

Thank you Cakewalk, for giving us a great product and for establishing electronic music production in my life. For what it's worth, I support this decision fully, I know it wouldn't have been an easy decision.
Thanks to all of you who continue to advance me and the rest of the community here with tips, helpful advice and camaraderie. I hope this forum continues to exist, as I consider everyone here my friend.
Project5 continues to be the integral cornerstone to my productions. I appreciated participating with the staff and the other beta testers in each of the cycles.
Big props to Cakewalk and the staff for making a great product even if it is no longer commercially viable.
Here's to much success in the future, guys!

Cheers!

-DA

Say It Ain't So (***sigh***).

Goodbye Project5.

ORIGINAL: Marketing [Cakewalk]

We have learned a great deal from Project5 development and we hope to translate some of its strengths into future Cakewalk products.

Also... awwwww yeeeeeah!

we hope to translate some of its strengths into future Cakewalk products.

Donating the organs posthumously isn't going to cut it. Project5's Gestalt whole was where the real enlightenment lived. Flaws and all.
Some people just got it. Evidently, a lot more than that simply didn't.

RIP, P5

You gave me a great start in the computer music world!

Darn! I had just got back to making some noise.

Thanks to Cake for finally putting us out of our misery.

I suppose it was always gonna be tough going against the "mighty" Reason and Live. It had become a crowded market with Reason,Live,FL and Orion Plat to name a few.

Never one to miss an opportunity Cake have offered a generous cross grade, however I'm still running a Athlon 2800XP machine so I guess I'm staying put.

Project 5 is dead long live Project 5 !!!

Having recently revisited P5 after not using it for a while, it really struck me what a great program it really is and how great it would be to see it updated to become the polished gem it had the potential to be. How sad to know that will never happen now.

Is there any chance the source code could be handed over to the open source community so that it could be further developed by anyone so inclined? I know it's probably not that simple, but just wondering.

It's sad to see it go but I do understand and respect Cakewalk's decision. My heartfelt condolences to all the loyal users :(

J

So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye ...

It is what it is, it was what it was, the sun has finally set. But the sun will rise again, someplace else. It always does.

"The ending of sorrow is the beginning of wisdom. Knowledge is always within the shadow of ignorance."

Cheers all. It was fun. Good luck.

  ← toilet roll man not happy!

ORIGINAL: JoMal

Is there any chance the source code could be handed over to the open source community so that it could be further developed by anyone so inclined? I know it's probably not that simple, but just wondering.

+1

If Cakewalk truly cared about the community they would do as described above.

Carey

ORIGINAL: CareyLetendre

ORIGINAL: JoMal

Is there any chance the source code could be handed over to the open source community so that it could be further developed by anyone so inclined? I know it's probably not that simple, but just wondering.

+1

If Cakewalk truly cared about the community they would do as described above.

Carey

It'll never happen.

Thanks for the official word.

A sense of closure I suppose. What a great run it has been.
I am getting used to the Sonar way, so this announcement helps.
Since I already bought 8SE, my path to 8PE is cheaper, but I appreciate the offer to the P5 community.
And thanks for keeping this forum open. The Sonar forum is just not..... well I'll check in there occasionally!

Very sorry to see it go.

There was just something about it's work flow that I loved that I can't replicate in Sonar.

I'll still continue to use it as a scratch pad for new ideas.

Bummer. But, on the bright side, I just opened P5 and, guess what? It still works!!!

ORIGINAL: Marketing [Cakewalk]

In that spirit, we would like to extend a special offer to all our Project5 customers. Through May 17th, registered Project5 customers can crossgrade to SONAR 8 Studio for only $99/£69/€79 or you can upgrade to SONAR 8 Producer for $249/£199/€229. In both cases, you will save $100/£80/€90 off your regular price, and this is a greater discount than the current special pricing that we are running for Cakewalk customers.

Hey, what about those of us who upgrade our Sonar like clockwork every fall? Do we get a $100 rebate?!

Sorry to pour water on all the sop & sentiment but I find it a bit insulting to make a non offer such as this.

I wonder how many have P5 and don't have SONAR? Is this really an offer of support. I would reckon that more Project 5 owners also have SONAR rather than not so it really makes this cross grade offer, a non-offer.

Its of no use to me and I bet the majority of us - This is what Cakewalk have said
"....we weren’t able to garner enough commercial success to make Project5 a viable product" indicating that there aren't that many users of P5 in the first place; relatively speaking of course.

As for the opening statement: "We regret to inform you that as of today there will be no further development on Project5." Precisely what development has taken place since the 2.5 update. None.....so surely you mean that today is the day of announcement not the day that development has ceased. That day was quite some time ago.

Now I've got that off my chest.

I guess P5 will be bundled along with SONAR 9, and labelled as a great song development tool. Lately Cakewalk have been misrepresenting their support of loyal customers far too much in ways that benefit them not the loyal user, What with this crossgrade non-offer and the DimPro give away with S8, and selling the forum as a product feature in SONAR - Not too much loyalty in that that I can see but a lot off marketing hype that really amounts to diddly squat.

I guess P5 will be bundled along with SONAR 9, and labelled as a great song development tool. Lately Cakewalk have been misrepresenting their support of loyal customers far too much in ways that benefit them not the loyal user, What with this crossgrade non-offer and the DimPro give away with S8, and selling the forum as a product feature in SONAR - Not too much loyalty in that that I can see but a lot off marketing hype that really amounts to diddly squat.

Yep. Something very un-Cakewalk-ish is afloat making decisions, I fear. Too bad. They probably have no choice, really. And that's just sad.

ah well I am getting mac next anyhow (for sure now). P5 was by far the best host I ever used though.

I'm sorry I bought this thing..... Never used it either... Hoping one day it would get even close to Ableton Live.....

Thanks for nothing Cakewalk...

R

Well said...

"I wonder how many have P5 and don't have SONAR? Is this really an offer of support. I would reckon that more Project 5 owners also have SONAR rather than not so it really makes this cross grade offer, a non-offer.

Its of no use to me and I bet the majority of us - This is what Cakewalk have said"

Well.... and there is is. So long CW. Yeah, I own SONAR (drank the "upgrade" koolaide at SONAR 6, dont use it), DimPro, Rapture, Project 5. Im done. There are far better apps out there than SONAR, and equally good softsynths. P5 was the only thing that really stood out from a creativity point.

Man its sad cant imagine finding a daw I would like as much, I feel robbed.

Are all you guys gonna move on, or are you gonna carry on using this.

Sad news. I "got it" from day one. Even though I didn't own it until a few years later. I think this is simply a bad marketing decision. The reason "we weren’t able to garner enough commercial success to make Project5 a viable product" is because you didn't choose to promote it. You were (and are) so hung up on Sonar that you can't see anything else. The blinders are on. Well here's a news flash: Just like there came a Web 2.0 where the old ways of website design were deprecated, so is coming a "DAW 2.0" where the old ways of DAW development and usage will be deprecated. People want leaner, meaner, easier production environments. Sonar has become a giant bloated, gold-plated yearly subscription device which still has yet to make any inroads as a truly professional (i.e. used by professionals in top-level commercial music production) product. Cowtowing to the typical geetar/bass yahoo who uses Sonar in his basement will only get you so far. How many more years will these guys pony up the $180 or so for the Sonar upgrade? And how will you attract new users to a community full of 50 year-olds?

Again, bad decision. Unless......in its place is coming that "DAW 2.0" product. That would not surprise me at all and I will be happy to see it.

In the meantime, I think putting all the company's eggs in the Sonar basket is anything but a wise move. Musicians are notoriously cheap and fickle. I hear Propellerheads is coming out with something new. Presonus is coming out with a new DAW. There will be others. The old DAW warhorses of the 1990s, just gold-plated year after year are showing their age. Time for something new.

Project5 was that and could have continued to be that given a little bit of development.

Anyway, I guess thanks for finally letting us know something officially which most of us figured out a couple of years ago.

The offer for Sonar is generous to be sure, but if we wanted Sonar I'd say it's likely we'd already have Sonar.

So I'd chalk that up to another awkward misread misstep

Terry: It wasn't him, Charley, it was you. Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and you said, "Kid, this ain't your night. We're going for the price on Wilson." You remember that? "This ain't your night"! My night! I coulda taken Wilson apart! So what happens? He gets the title shot outdoors on the ballpark and what do I get? A one-way ticket to Palooka-ville! You was my brother, Charley, you shoulda looked out for me a little bit. You shoulda taken care of me just a little bit so I wouldn't have to take them dives for the short-end money.
Charlie: Oh I had some bets down for you. You saw some money.
Terry: You don't understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it. It was you, Charley.

When they said ending all support I didn't think that the page to the 2.5.1 update would go awol and project5.com disappear over night...

Poor show old boy

I still wonder how much work it would of been to make Project5 an FX to put into Sonar instead of by ReWire.


Anyway at least Project5 owners have closure

Ed

Wow...I've never seen so many thank you's by supposedly devoted customers for a company's discontinuance of a newer product that most/all of them purchased.

It is indeed a disturbing universe.

"Cakewalk: A Proud Tradition of Not Finishing What we Started."

ORIGINAL: vomitgod

Wow...I've never seen so many thank you's by supposedly devoted customers for a company's discontinuance of a newer product that most/all of them purchased.

It is indeed a disturbing universe.

How so? I feel they got it right pretty much from the start. I look at value, brother.
$150 ... 5 years of music making bliss, with little to no problems.
That seem like a stretch for you? Wow... let's get real.

Right DA,

I can still use it, single core and all. Actually, that is not that big of a problem since I got use to freezing tracks before it became an easy button - back when adding a reverb could bring a sub gigahertz computer to a stop. I can understand Cake's decision (in fact wondered how they could support two different DAW engines in the forums), but I still think P5 is (was?) the best intro platform to making synth music. And I still start my electro pojects there.

@

Well what a shame. Ive been using P5 2.5 for a few years now. Just recently got ACT working with legacy MIDI hardware, and boom, the whole thing goes up in smoke. I agree with many of the comments here. P5 was a real competitor to LIVE and an alternative to REASON, at least for me. Plus you could record into it. Why didn't they kill Sonar home studio?

I'm a little PO'd now because I just bought a new system, will have to reinstall P5, and they have taken down the link to the last maintenance release.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? It seems like a rash decision to pull the last maintenance release, plus all the previous ones are still available.

RIP P5

Cake - Thanks for telling us.

You should sell the code to someone.

ORIGINAL: TUS

I'm a little PO'd now because I just bought a new system, will have to reinstall P5, and they have taken down the link to the last maintenance release.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? It seems like a rash decision to pull the last maintenance release, plus all the previous ones are still available.

I think the update exe is lost because the sticky points to a file hosted on the Project5.com domain.
Try here Project5 Support

Nick, I more or less agree with what you're saying here. But I don't think CW is "putting all its eggs in one basket." I see this as part of the evolution of the CW line towards a post-Sonar product, what you called DAW 2.0 and what I called a while back a "post-DAW DAW." Here's my take on the Project5 announcement. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1712646&mpage=1&key=#1712750

ORIGINAL: Nick P

Cowtowing to the typical geetar/bass yahoo who uses Sonar in his basement will only get you so far. How many more years will these guys pony up the $180 or so for the Sonar upgrade?

Again, I agree with much of the point you seem to be trying to make. But the problems with Sonar aren't rooted in the instruments played or the kind of music made by its user base. There's something about the regular references to "geetar" players and so on that makes it seem like you're slumming to be here among such yahoos. On the basis of what? I gather that you're a formally trained musician. But why should that impress anyone?

The reality is, you're here, using these products, and complaining about these products, and calculating whether or not to upgrade these products, and trying to figure out what it means when they kill these products off. The fact that you can apparently play suma that fayancy music reeeel purty on a pieyana doesn't change that.

We're all yahoos on this bus.

Thanks darlomrh.

That link was redundant earlier.

Its all kind of ironic really. Though I read the forum a lot, I never became a member until today - The day they stopped developing P5! However it just goes to show that I really had no issues with it, and would read up mainly for pointers, but I myself never had specific issues!

I just bought a new machine. Quad core processor and 3GB of RAM. Though P5 can only see one core, I can still send other processes to the other cores. There is a great tool for XP called PriFinitty that will allow you to set affinity and priority to your various cores on an XP system and save your settings on the fly as a template. you can also set it to run everytime a specific process (such as P5 starts).

I also just bought Stylus RMX with the SAGE expanders included. Its a total steal at $379!

I gather that you're a formally trained musician

This made me chuckle a little.

We're all yahoos on this bus.

Except me.... I dont like to ride the bus, there are some scary people on there.

PS Cakewalk, why did it take you so long to tell us about this? It must have been decided ages ago that P5 was not going to be updated.

I am starting to believe that the DAW being beta tested will be the successor to P5.

The cynical side of me says that they must have a reason to stop selling P5 altogether. Even if P5 did not sell much, the cost of having a few pages on their store site dedicated to P5 was probably less than what they might have generated in sales. If P5 sales cut into sales of the new DAW, then obviously it would have to go.

The optimistic side of me thinks that perhaps P5 is going to be replaced with something similar, but more advanced. With a catchier name.

ORIGINAL: mumpcake

I am starting to believe that the DAW being beta tested will be the successor to P5.
...

The optimistic side of me thinks that perhaps P5 is going to be replaced with something similar, but more advanced. With a catchier name.

I've been kinda thinking the same thing. Call me a foolish optimist, but the posts on kvr and gearslutz looking for beta testers don't strike me as being for the next Sonar, unless CW is planning on overhauling Sonar. Time will tell, I guess.

ORIGINAL: Marketing [Cakewalk]
In that spirit, we would like to extend a special offer to all our Project5 customers. Through May 17th, registered Project5 cu249stomers can crossgrade to SONAR 8 Studio for only $99/£69/€79 or you can upgrade to SONAR 8 Producer for $249/£199/€229. In both cases, you will save $100/£80/€90 off your regular price, and this is a greater discount than the current special pricing that we are running for Cakewalk customers.

$249 for SONAR 8 when SONAR 9 is around the corner?

ORIGINAL: cryophonik

unless CW is planning on overhauling Sonar

This is where I'm putting my chips, because SONAR is in desperate need for exactly that, and I believe Cakewalk knows it.

I dont own sonar and never will. Too bad eh?

ORIGINAL: mahtazz

$249 for SONAR 8 when SONAR 9 is around the corner?

Unless it's not.

By the way, I just got this in the mail.

ORIGINAL: TUS

Well what a shame. Ive been using P5 2.5 for a few years now. Just recently got ACT working with legacy MIDI hardware, and boom, the whole thing goes up in smoke. I agree with many of the comments here. P5 was a real competitor to LIVE and an alternative to REASON, at least for me. Plus you could record into it. Why didn't they kill Sonar home studio?

I'm a little PO'd now because I just bought a new system, will have to reinstall P5, and they have taken down the link to the last maintenance release.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? It seems like a rash decision to pull the last maintenance release, plus all the previous ones are still available.

I think you kinda answered your question. It's not a real competitor to Live or Reason. No reason wasting resources in a sinking ship. From my experience P5 is a system resource hog compared to Sonar and anything else that is out there.

Besides Sonar 8 is getting great reviews and the focus is on making it even better.

Please just move the better parts of P5 over to Sonar. Particularly the arpeggiator. Nothing wrong with leveraging the good parts of one application and reusing them in another. It's a great way to cut development costs.

Sorry to see P5 end. For those of us that have Sonar 8, maybe Cakewalk can offer a discount on one of the sound libraries.

Cheers,

jayson

Wow...sad to here this. I was hopeful. What amazes me is the fact that with Kinetic and Project5 Cakewalk was 2 or 3 years ahead of BPM and Maschine but I guess Cakewalk wasn't looking in that direction then. They could have a matured product by now could have danced circles around them by now. There are still some things that Kinetic can do that BPM can't. Hopefully the future develope will bring back a competitive edge again. Both products are fabulous pattern sequencing programs maybe we'll see some sort of reincarnation of P5 later. Oh well BPM it is then.

Talk about heart-breaking!!!

This is one of those spirit dashing moments...There goes my hopes of seeing P5 evolved to its greatest potential...It would've been great to see P5 become that MPC replacement, I'd been pushing Cakewalk to make it through the FR page...serious let down.

Thanks for at least letting us know...

ORIGINAL: urock

You should sell the code to someone.

I've written somewhat extensively about this and received nothing but opposition on the idea. I think it's a great one so +1.

This doesn't bother me at all, and makes tons of sense. I think most of us are happy to simply have a real answer finally.

Of course, it doesn't mean a person has to stop using the software. Obviously it still works, and while of course no one wants to make their main music platform a dead-end, it doesn't mean it's not a great tool for certain things (beat-making, pattern generation, idea-catching...other hypen-related things...)

For the people who are upset, I would mention simply that P5 just never got a foothold worth Cake's continued investment. Big deal. Things get cut all the time. I'm sure Cake were hoping P5 would be a Reason/Live competitor and it just worked out that the other two programs found their niches faster and better. It's a shame, but it's just reality. I'm not gonna stick Cake with the blame that more laptop-loop kids liked Live more.

Looking to the brighter side, I think it FINALLY opens up the door for P5's still-awesome features to be ported over to SONAR in some way. Like Candlesayshi mentioned, SONAR is indeed in need of a semi-major transformation (and really, if sticking to the 10-year timetable they have, SONAR 10 would actually be a brand new product) and now we know what some of the awesome tools they can bring to bear.

I doubt it was anything nefarious on the part of Cake, I'm sure people like Seth over there were totally bummed about it, but I think they prolly had some long long meetings and realized it wasn't a success, nor a fit for their plans.

Like I said before, I'm just glad to have a definitive answer and am excited that it now means all the good parts of P5 are fair game to yank over to SONAR.

When I saw Beatscape, I heard the coffin lid slam shut. This doen't surprise me at all... I say this without any rancor or hard feelings: I called this one in Technicolor last October. (See post #4)

I think my comment on Dim Pro is in the process of bearing out, too.

Love the app, I'll keep using it when the muse beckons... I have some other musical directions I have been pursuing lately, but it works fine, and is still in my arsenal.

And, I'll still be here in the forum... y'all's fambly, man.

Peace,

Russ

ORIGINAL: Chrisma

Wow...sad to here this. I was hopeful. What amazes me is the fact that with Kinetic and Project5 Cakewalk was 2 or 3 years ahead of BPM and Maschine but I guess Cakewalk wasn't looking in that direction then. They could have a matured product by now could have danced circles around them by now. There are still some things that Kinetic can do that BPM can't. Hopefully the future develope will bring back a competitive edge again. Both products are fabulous pattern sequencing programs maybe we'll see some sort of reincarnation of P5 later. Oh well BPM it is then.

Speaking of Kinetic, it's been three years since its last release. How long until the announcement for that program?

What a bummer... well, at least we have a excellent tool for creating music in an inventive and inspiring way. For that I am greatful to Cakewalk. Can't blame em.

Now I am going to put on a shroud and sit in ashes.

I hope this forum will remain alive as a testament to a great program by a great company.

Kind regards,


tecknot

Lets see - Project 5 brought me Dimension (& Pro), nPulse, DS864, Roland Groove Synth, Cyclone, PSYN I & II, Velocity, and introduced me to the good stuff - Rapture, Z3ta+, Battery, RMIV (Thanks Sean), GPO, and many more.

And I've managed to meet quite a few nice folks here and abroad in the process!

Thank you Cakewalk.

PS. P5 is still my go-to DAW for initiating new ideas - and it runs just fine thank you...

Peace!

edit: I guess what I was going to spend upgrading P5 will now go towards buying the latest version of Finale - not bad, really...

I like to see something like Groove Matrix in Sonar 9. PLEASE!! and project 5 FX too!!

Hey, what about those of us who upgrade our Sonar like clockwork every fall? Do we get a $100 rebate?!

And if you already own Sonar 6 or 7, the upgrade prices are a a lot less than the "deal" Cakewalk is offering P5 users. If you own Sonar 6 or 7 SE it's $179 or $129 if you own Sonar 6 or 7 PE. So much for the appreciation of loyal supporters. I already own S7 SE and got it bundled with Dim Pro. So S8 PE doesn't really offer me much. Besides, Sonar is way too complicated for me at this point, which is why I'll keep using P5 as long as it works on my computer.

Hey Cakewalk, what about giving me a free copy of Sonar Home Studio instead -- I'm serious!