Another brick in the wall?

I have not installed P5 since upgrading from 32-bit Windows 7 to 64-bit Windows 10 last year.  I was concerned about all that 32 bit stuff. But it may not really be an issue.  If I do try it again, I will look out for the ASIO problems.
 
I am now running Platinum 64-bit, and I did re-install Sonar X3 32-bit, for testing and using with old projects and 32 bit plugins. That seems to live happily beside Platinum, and I try to keep most of my 32-bit plugins over in X3. I realize that I could install 32-bit Platinum, but I don't see the need.  I also have 8.5 somewhere on an old XP laptop that I never use anymore, along with P5, Ableton, and Acid.
 
So I suppose if I dropped P5 back in here, it could share some 32-bit plugins with X3.  I keep Platinum mostly 64 bit, with one or two exceptions.

abacab
Another brick in the wall?

Not at all  just an honest question ...
 

BobF

kennywtelejazz
I'm wondering aloud over here ...What brick walls are folks here hitting while using P 5 ?
 
Kenny

I had problems with ASIO and synths.  Being 32 bit, P5 didn't want to use anything on my system that didn't get installed as part of its own package.  I could've still used it with its own bundled synths, but the ASIO problems on top of that sealed its fate.
 
When I transitioned to my newest machine, I didn't even bother installing it.

I do understand Bob , the P5 VST scan tool can be very finicky at times ....
 
I have my reasons for asking folks about the brick walls  ..
Here's where I'm at now ....listen up abacab
 
I have been using P 5 rewired into SONAR SPlat 64 bit in Win 10 64 bit now for the past week ...
it works effing great ..not even a crash yet ....
I found out how to do this because I was searching for a way to do one thing online and by total accident I found a tutorial video on how to use both 64 bit and 32 bit programs rewired ...regardless of brand or Vintage
 
That's why I'm putting out a feeler
 
are you guys interested ?
 
Kenny
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

BobF
 
I had X3 x32 installed for awhile too, and P5 was able to use those x32 synths.  ASIO was still a problem.
 
For reference, it was 8.1x64 with Platx64, X3(e)x32 and P5 ... along with other stuff.  Everything worked OK except for my interface (16x08).  IIRC, P5 only saw the first 2 of 16 inputs.
 

 
Ah, well my M-Audio Firewire 410 is actually only 2 in, 8 out as far as the 1/4" TS plugs go.  So unless I use S/PDIF, which I don't, no problemo -- maybe? 
 
Two ins works OK for me, because I mostly always use soft synths now anyway.
 

 
My thinking is that if I have zero x32 stuff, I'll never have to worry if a problem is related to x32/x64 bridging

I get that!

kennywtelejazz
 
I thought you would never ask 
 
The person making the video is a SONAR X3 user and he is Rewiring Reason 5 32bit ....
As I mentioned P5 works great w SPlat using this approach the link for the app is in the videos description ...

 
all the best,
 
Kenny

Hey thanks for that Kenny!!!

Magic Russ

kennywtelejazz
I'm wondering aloud over here ...What brick walls are folks here hitting while using P 5 ?
 

I would like to be able to load Addictive Drums and Scarbee Rick Bass and one of the Scarbee Electric Pianos into a project.  I get memory issues when I do that in P5.

Project 5 is a 32-bit application, subject to user-mode virtual address space for each 32-bit process of 2GB.
 
https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/e029e271-2c53-4e23-8da4-ac48e2092a76/memory-limits-of-32bit-application-running-on-64bit-os-windows-2008-server-64bit?forum=winservergen
 
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx#memory_limits

abacab

BobF
 
I had X3 x32 installed for awhile too, and P5 was able to use those x32 synths.  ASIO was still a problem.
 
For reference, it was 8.1x64 with Platx64, X3(e)x32 and P5 ... along with other stuff.  Everything worked OK except for my interface (16x08).  IIRC, P5 only saw the first 2 of 16 inputs.
 

 
Ah, well my M-Audio Firewire 410 is actually only 2 in, 8 out as far as the 1/4" TS plugs go.  So unless I use S/PDIF, which I don't, no problemo -- maybe? 
 
Two ins works OK for me, because I mostly always use soft synths now anyway.
 

 
My thinking is that if I have zero x32 stuff, I'll never have to worry if a problem is related to x32/x64 bridging

I get that!

My problem with inputs isn't that I need more for concurrent recording.  I have different stuff connected to different inputs, with each input's gain set accordingly.  The INST ins are 9/19, with 9 set up for guitar and 10 for bass or A/E.
 
Two ins (XLR) for mics, another has the direct out for an amp, another is set up for a Red Box 5, a set of lines for a GT-001, etc.
 
Only seeing 1/2 in my case makes it more trouble to use than it's worth.
 
 

BobF
 
My problem with inputs isn't that I need more for concurrent recording.  I have different stuff connected to different inputs, with each input's gain set accordingly.  The INST ins are 9/19, with 9 set up for guitar and 10 for bass or A/E.
 
Two ins (XLR) for mics, another has the direct out for an amp, another is set up for a Red Box 5, a set of lines for a GT-001, etc.
 
Only seeing 1/2 in my case makes it more trouble to use than it's worth.

So it sounds like the real brick walls are using external inputs and the 32-bit limitations.  Cakewalk, are you listening?

The speculation was there was one programmer and he left after P5 came out.  Its main point was playing soft synths, but SONAR could soon do that.  I think the real idea behind P5 was Dimension - cakewalks first real sample playback unit.  So P5 v1 was a synth player for the older synths and P5 v2 added Dimension with a nice library that became Dimension Pro and then Rapture. Then they tacked on audio recording and suddenly they had competing products and decided to stick with SONAR.  They stuck a lot of P5 into SONAR, but it has never been as simple and clean. But a lot of the clean look of P5 got transferred over to SONAR X.

AT
So P5 v1 was a synth player for the older synths and P5 v2 added Dimension with a nice library that became Dimension Pro and then Rapture. Then they tacked on audio recording and suddenly they had competing products and decided to stick with SONAR.  They stuck a lot of P5 into SONAR, but it has never been as simple and clean. But a lot of the clean look of P5 got transferred over to SONAR X.

V1 was pretty limited.  I think their original goal was to have something that could compete with Reason.  V2 seemed more like a new host together than an update.  It looked a lot cleaner, they added the matrix, Dimension Pro, a clip browser, etc.  Dimension was a big additional selling point, but I would have never gotten into P5 if it didn't make the improvements it did between versions 1 and 2.

OK. So I finished re-installing Project5 2.5 on my DAW today.  I had left it off when I migrated to Windows 10 x64 and Platinum x64 last July.  Wanted to avoid the 32-bit world for a while, if possible.
 
So really, no point in nit-picking this thing that's over 10 years old, and will still run on Windows 10.  No point trying to load this up like a full blown DAW either.  But for a musical scratchpad, or a groove machine, it still works 
 
I have $1000+ worth of other software that did not make the trip over at all (stuff that ran OK on Win XP & Win 7).
 
Taking it for what it is, and not expecting it to be something it's not, it's really a fast, light, synth workstation.  The matrix view and clip browser is very well integrated.  The workspace is still clean and uncluttered, and doesn't seem outdated at all.  I can also load up many of my 3rd party instruments (that didn't exist 10 years ago).
 
It runs with a fairly low latency on my ASIO drivers, between 5.8 and 11.6 ms (256-512 samples), depending on how I load it with instruments.  With 6 or more instruments stacked, I need to bump it up to 512, but that is still usable.
 
The main thing I observed is that this is a single threaded application, so the internal CPU meter is reflecting the single thread, not the computer total.  Probably got to watch out that you don't hit the ceiling, but so far I haven't been able to. No memory issues here either, but I run more synths than samplers, so my memory footprint is usually low.
 
I tested it with the sample content project, "You Are That Man (Grandpa Mojo)".
 
This project is scattered over 20 tracks (4 MIDI and 16 audio).  The CPU never went above 11% during playback.  Project5 is showing RAM use of about 400MB with this project loaded.  That song sure brings back some old memories of the first time I installed P5 back in the day
 
It still is what it was.  But it actually runs better on today's hardware.  And that ain't bad at all!!!

kennywtelejazz
I'm wondering aloud over here ...What brick walls are folks here hitting while using P 5 ?
 
Kenny

My i7 4790 says, "I'm not running this".  It chokes on it.  I have yet to try it on my FX6300.  I think I have it installed on my Q6600 and an older AMD.  It was a unique app. I think it was meant to compete with Reason but failed.  For some reason the opening template with the FX used 10% CPU.
 It would be interesting of they turned into a VST.  FL can be used as a VST and I think that have another one that is like a sequencer.

abacab

kitekrazy1

kennywtelejazz
I'm wondering aloud over here ...What brick walls are folks here hitting while using P 5 ?
 
Kenny

My i7 4790 says, "I'm not running this".  It chokes on it.

Now that's just really weird.  My i3 runs it without breaking a sweat

Ditto with my i5-3350P.  I haven't bothered with the i7-6700.  I'll accept the group's results

kitekrazy1

abacab

kitekrazy1

kennywtelejazz
I'm wondering aloud over here ...What brick walls are folks here hitting while using P 5 ?
 
Kenny

My i7 4790 says, "I'm not running this".  It chokes on it.

Now that's just really weird.  My i3 runs it without breaking a sweat

An i7 is a quad core.  P5 came out when single core was the norm. It could be that hyperthreading is the issue.

My CPU is a 3rd gen Intel i3-3240 dual core, with 4 threads and hyperthreading enabled.  I'm locked at 3.4Ghz without turbo, so that's the best any singe thread will get on my machine.  I could upgrade to i7, but I haven't run into anything yet that this i3 can't do. I don't need 100 tracks.
 
You should be able to blast that thing with a single thread using your max turbo frequency of 4.0Ghz.  Don't understand why it's giving you crap?

mumpcake
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=455613
 
The thread is titled "Favorite Discontinued DAWs..." and Project 5 seems to be the most mentioned.

I think that Project5 may have been abandoned too soon.  It offered a simpler workflow for certain things than Sonar does.
 
I still have P5 installed on Windows 10 and it runs fine.  The only drawbacks that I can see is that it is 32-bit, and single threaded.   Back in the day I had P5, Ableton Live 5, and Acid Pro 6 all installed side by side, along with Sonar.
 
Since I primarily work with synths, I think my preference was for Project 5, because it was a killer virtual synth rack.
 
I never cared for Reason, because they did not support VST plugs.  But P5 was open to all.
 
I think that the main reason given for no longer developing P5, was that moving to 64-bit would involve too much work.  That's a shame, because P5 was such a good idea, maybe a little bit ahead of it's time.  It now appears that Live and P5 got together and had a baby.  It's name is Bitwig. 
 
Maybe the best we could hope for in the next Sonar UI update, is that the Matrix view could be better integrated beside the track view, in a horizontal arrangement.  That would be more intuitive IMHO.
 
The obvious question to be answered for any of the current bakers that were not around in the P5 times, is what is still missing from Sonar?  It might appear now that anything you could do in P5 can be done in Sonar.  Sonar has a synth rack, (Groove) Matrix View, and a file browser ...