Helpful ReplyHot!Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig?

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abacab
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2016/05/08 11:07:29 (permalink)

Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig?

Disclaimer: I am not encouraging anyone to go out and get another new DAW.  I like Sonar :-) 
 
But, I just wanted to point out some similarities here, and also to ponder why Cakewalk can't incorporate this feature into Sonar? It was originally good enough for P5, and apparently now good enough for Bitwig ...
 
I recently got curious enough about Bitwig to see what all the fuss was about, via YouTube. Apparently some ex-Ableton guys started their own DAW project a while back.  I have an old version of Ableton Live, so my first impression is that they started with that design, and added a few new ideas from scratch.  The whole idea behind the vertical Live session tracks and scenes, and horizontal arrange view, had never really clicked for me.
 
But, Wow!!! While watching this Bitwig demo, at about 3:25 minutes in, I got a huge P5 flashback! 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGeFBNXojHw
 
If you have P5 installed, and watch this YouTube clip side by side, you can see that Bitwig has a very similar layout to P5 (for Track Pane, Arrange Pane, and Groove Matrix).  The Bitwig Arrange view even slides over to reveal their Scene view (ala P5 Groove Matrix). While Bitwig is in this mode, their Scene view is now horizontally aligned with the tracks in the Arrange Pane.  Seem familiar?
 
This is another YouTube clip by the same guys as above, but goes deeper into the arrangement mode. You can skip to about 3:55 minutes to where they begin discussing the horizontal arranger view.  New feature, ha! ROFL!!!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXYwIkSstis

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mumpcake
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2016/05/14 18:45:26 (permalink)
It does look a lot like P5.  I have been on the fence for a while.
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abacab
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2016/05/15 15:49:55 (permalink)
mumpcake
It does look a lot like P5.  I have been on the fence for a while.


I think P5 still works well enough for me that I will probably resist the urge to jump the fence, for a new scratchpad.
 
I guess my point is that if Bitwig can do it, why can't Cakewalk update the Sonar Matrix to be more like this?  They had the template first, obviously a different take on Live's Session View ...

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backwoods
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2016/06/04 00:42:25 (permalink)
someone mentioned possibility of resurrecting p5 1st June 2016 and it drew a response from Craig Anderton (hmmm...), also Andrew from Cakewalk did not shoot it down either, he made a cryptic remark that anything may be possible....
 
What does it mean!!!!! Plans may be afoot!

 
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FZ1
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2016/06/04 03:12:13 (permalink)
I'd have to say Craig's "Hmmmm" gave me a surprise. I still use and love Project5.
 
Sonars going into a whole new ecosystem in the Mac world. If they finally brought the Matrix View and Step Sequencer/Editor up to the level of Project5 functionality, they might turn a few more heads. 
 
Currently no Mac user using Sonar for the first time is going to be very impressed with Sonar for non linear playing without some major work here.  
 
Could Project5 live on....... Maybe in Sonar, Finally?
 
 
 
 
 
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pwalpwal
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2016/06/04 05:21:55 (permalink)
fwiw, i ended up going to ableton live after p5 was abandoned, but bitwig didn't exist then

just a sec

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kb420
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/01/31 08:16:53 (permalink)
For those of you still looking for a replacement for Project 5, Mixcraft 8 may be an option.  It has a very similar layout and workflow to P5.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-0grIYiIOE
 
http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/v7/help/performance-panel-topics.htm
 
http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/
 
 
 

"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!"
 
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BobF
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/01/31 09:06:41 (permalink)
Interesting ...

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abacab
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/01/31 13:15:12 (permalink)
kb420
For those of you still looking for a replacement for Project 5, Mixcraft 8 may be an option.  It has a very similar layout and workflow to P5.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-0grIYiIOE
 
http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/v7/help/performance-panel-topics.htm
 
http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/




That looks like everything you can do now with Sonar Matrix View.  Except have the matrix line up beside the track view.
 
Since Platinum 2016.11, you can even drag a highlighted section of a clip from track view (say just a couple of bars from a long clip, no splitting required) into a cell in the matrix.
http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=NewFeatures.006.html
 
You still cannot record directly into the Sonar matrix, as far as I can tell. 
 
I hope they keep improving the matrix in Sonar.  It's very usable at this point.  Maybe not enough for live performance, but as a composition tool, it's cool!

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kb420
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/02/01 13:55:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2017/02/03 12:36:02
BobF
Interesting ...




I also started a thread a while ago about Bitwig,  but for some reason this Mixcraft actually reminds me more of P5 than Bitwig does.  
 


"Now, excuse me while I jump into my Jaguar; I need to board my private jet for the usual weekend trip to my mansion on the Big Island. I think Trixie, Crystal, and Heather are already there...must not keep them waiting in the hot tub!"
 
-Craig Anderton-
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abacab
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/02/01 14:45:44 (permalink)
My hope is that Cakewalk integrates the Matrix further into the Sonar trackview, or at least allows that option. 
 
I was just curious about Bitwig, because it was started by former Ableton devs.  While watching a video about Bitwig that demonstrated a GUI improvement over Live, I noticed the resemblance to the GUI in P5.  Mixcraft seems to have that as well.

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/02/03 12:47:36 (permalink)
kb420
BobF
Interesting ...




I also started a thread a while ago about Bitwig,  but for some reason this Mixcraft actually reminds me more of P5 than Bitwig does.  
 





Mixcraft 8 certainly looks Great
 
Over here I'm on Mixcraft 7 Pro . Love it ....Mixcraft fills a really nice spot for me ...
Like P 5 , every time I start something in Mixcraft , I always get something done
 
I'm probably gonna upgrade to Mixcraft 8 sometime in the next week or two ...
 
all the best,
Kenny
 
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2017/02/03 13:18:39

                   
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abacab
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/02/03 13:57:26 (permalink)
kennywtelejazz
 
Mixcraft 8 certainly looks Great
 
Over here I'm on Mixcraft 7 Pro . Love it ....Mixcraft fills a really nice spot for me ...
Like P 5 , every time I start something in Mixcraft , I always get something done
 
I'm probably gonna upgrade to Mixcraft 8 sometime in the next week or two ...
 
all the best,
Kenny




This part sounds really interesting ...
 
"Mixcraft 8 is packed with high-end features including live performance panel recording"
 
"Record loops directly to Performance Panel grid locations for instant creation of layered live loop performances."
 
Could be a deal maker, because that is something that still cannot be done in Sonar Matrix view.
 
Maybe worth a look at the 14 day free trial.  http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/download.php
 
The Studio version sells for $89, without the extra plugins.

Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-10; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1703 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
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BobF
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/02/05 09:46:28 (permalink)
I loaded up the trial and immediately noticed the lack of FaderPort support.  A quick search on their forum shows requests for FP support back to version 6 (maybe further).  The FP works soooo well for me with SONAR and Reaper, I can't imagine not being able to use it.
 
Other than that, it does look nice and performs well ... so far.  I haven't checked out the "Performance" mode yet though.
 
At $180 for the big version compared to $300 for the big S One 3, I'm pretty sure I would go S1-3 IF I was in the market for another DAW, which I'm not, and IF a trial of S1-3 was successful.
 
What I really want is P5V3x64
 
The Stones said it really well ...

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/02/05 16:33:00 (permalink)
abacab
kennywtelejazz
 
Mixcraft 8 certainly looks Great
 
Over here I'm on Mixcraft 7 Pro . Love it ....Mixcraft fills a really nice spot for me ...
Like P 5 , every time I start something in Mixcraft , I always get something done
 
I'm probably gonna upgrade to Mixcraft 8 sometime in the next week or two ...
 
all the best,
Kenny




This part sounds really interesting ...
 
"Mixcraft 8 is packed with high-end features including live performance panel recording"
 
"Record loops directly to Performance Panel grid locations for instant creation of layered live loop performances."
 
Could be a deal maker, because that is something that still cannot be done in Sonar Matrix view.
 
Maybe worth a look at the 14 day free trial.  http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/download.php
 
The Studio version sells for $89, without the extra plugins.




Hey abacab ,
 
You are preaching to the choir  ...
I love Mixcraft 7 Pro and I have every intention of getting Mixcraft 8 Pro....my cost to upgrade will only be $39 .00..
 
Yes, the ability to record while in the performance panel does seem like a must have new feature . I'm looking forward to checking that out after I upgrade ...I have used that feature in Abelton Live 9 intro over here and it is very sweet ...
Also there are a few other features I'm interested in ....
 
BobF
I loaded up the trial and immediately noticed the lack of FaderPort support.  A quick search on their forum shows requests for FP support back to version 6 (maybe further).  The FP works soooo well for me with SONAR and Reaper, I can't imagine not being able to use it.
 
Other than that, it does look nice and performs well ... so far.  I haven't checked out the "Performance" mode yet though.
 
At $180 for the big version compared to $300 for the big S One 3, I'm pretty sure I would go S1-3 IF I was in the market for another DAW, which I'm not, and IF a trial of S1-3 was successful.
 
What I really want is P5V3x64
 
The Stones said it really well ...




Hi Bob ,
 
Oh Yeah , P5V3x 64 ....I like the way you think I wish we could get what we want in this case ....
 
Unless Acoustica changed something from 7 to 8 , I think the only thing the performance panel is missing is the ability to do a proper midi preview ...
This has been the one thing that I have found to be a weakness in the program from the point of view as a long time P 5 user ...2005 / 2006 ...
I have yet to figure out a way to do midi preview in Mixcraft 7 Pro . I do not know if this has been addressed in Mixcraft 8 or not ..still using 7 ...
In SONAR , you just load up a soft synth and direct the midi playing VIA the synth to sound in the preview bus ...
In P5 , you just highlight the track with the soft synth loaded and just go nuts in the browser ...
That type of midi preview feature does not appear to be active in Mixcraft 7 ...
What that means is I have no way of previewing any of my loop loft midi drum loops in real time with the project as it plays ...this turns out to be a lot of extra work
 
Yeah I do understand what you mean about not wanting to do another DAW ..
In my case this works out great because Mixcrafts workflow is close enough to what I was used to in P5 ...
It's 64 bit and in some ways I consider this program to be a version of the poor mans Abelton Live ...
I have Live intro and I do like it , yet for me to upgrade to standard I'm looking at Three Hundred ...or mid two's during a  sale ....
I picked up Mixcraft 7 Pro during the August Sale for $54 dollars ..to get Mixcraft 8 Pro it's only gonna run me $39 dollars more ...
Those type of numbers I'm totally cool with and I happen to like the program a lot ....
Since Mixcraft 8 just came out , it may be a while before they do a sale like that ...who knows they might ...
 
Any way I honestly do enjoy doing music in Mixcraft .
I use it just like I used to use P5 as a quick scratch pad ...I always get something done fast even if it's only just an idea
 
all the best,
 
Kenny
 
 

                   
Oh Yeah , Life is Good ,  SONAR SPlat .
Gibson R 8 Les Paul VOS , American Bulldog
 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson
 
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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=427899



#15
BobF
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/02/05 17:55:17 (permalink)
Speaking of Scratchpad ... after posting here I said, "what the heck" and installed the S1-3 demo.  The FaderPort works flawlessly with it
 
<sigh ...>
 
 

Bob  --
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mumpcake
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/02/17 00:12:59 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2017/02/17 08:03:58
I just picked up Bitwig on the half off sale.  I think that means we could see P5V3 by fall.
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abacab
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/02/17 01:22:06 (permalink)
mumpcake
 
I think that means we could see P5V3 by fall.




There's always hope!!! 

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Jesse G
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/01 02:55:43 (permalink)
Project 5 was my pride and joy at one time.  I could create songs on the Fly while being in an airport with a 25 key M-Audio midi-man.

Peace,
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mumpcake
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/01 18:42:13 (permalink)
One thing about Acoustica that turned me off was that they listed the MDA series and Kjaerhus Classic effects as part of their included content.  It just seemed a little cheesy to be taking credit for freebies that have been around for 15 years.
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abacab
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/01 19:59:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby AT 2017/03/02 15:53:07
After playing around with the Mixcraft 8 demo, I found that it seems to work well, but it has too much duplication with Sonar features for me to use it as a secondary tool.
 
The Performance Panel grid is similar to the Matrix View in Sonar, with the addition of live recording into the grid clips (something that I haven't tried yet, but some might find this useful).  I like the position they have placed the grid into, next to the track view, so that the grid rows are horizontally aligned with the track view.  This does remind me of Project5, and I wish Sonar would do this with the Matrix (or else release P5 v3).
 
In addition, Mixcraft can follow project pitch with markers that can set the tempo, key, and time signature at any point.  So as with Sonar's Matrix cells, when you import loops or groove clips they can follow the project pitch and follow changes based on markers.
 
I was also playing around with a demo of Ableton Live 9 (I have an older version), and as far as I can tell, Ableton does not seem to be aware of project pitch or key.  A search through the manual turned up nothing. It seems that you can transpose a sample, but that is a manual process.  The emphasis here seems to be with tempo and pitch stretching to match the tempo.

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#21
BobF
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/01 20:16:34 (permalink)
MC8 didn't do much for me either.

Bob  --
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AT
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/02 15:55:19 (permalink)
I've asked for following the time line - great help. 

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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abacab
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/02 16:02:46 (permalink)
AT
I've asked for following the time line - great help. 



For what to follow?

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#24
BobF
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/02 16:28:18 (permalink)
abacab
AT
I've asked for following the time line - great help. 



For what to follow?




Yes, exactly

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
Illegitimi non carborundum
--
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mumpcake
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/03 04:53:15 (permalink)
Bitwig is working out ok so far, but I have to gripe about the way they implemented tap tempo.  It is so insanely non-intuitive that you would never guess what you have to do to use it.
#26
AT
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/03 05:34:39 (permalink)
The matrix to follow and match the timeline, like in Bitwig. 
 
Unfortunately, I can't seem to copy anything from within the post today.

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#27
pwalpwal
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/03 12:12:43 (permalink)
cake should bake a "project 5" lens for sonar

just a sec

#28
abacab
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/04 19:18:02 (permalink)
AT
The matrix to follow and match the timeline, like in Bitwig. 
 
Unfortunately, I can't seem to copy anything from within the post today.




Yup, the Matrix GUI needs better integration (grid rows layed out horizontally beside the tracks view), but functionally it seems to follow ok.

Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-10; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1703 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
#29
abacab
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Re: Project5 Lives On ... Maybe In Bitwig? 2017/03/04 19:18:19 (permalink)
pwalpwal
cake should bake a "project 5" lens for sonar




That would be cool!

Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-10; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1703 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
#30
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