Helpful ReplyPromotion of music

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vdvorn
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2017/08/17 03:47:04 (permalink)

Promotion of music

Is it appropriate to discuss the problems connected with the promotion of somebody's own music on this forum?
 
I would be interested to know the opinion of experienced people, which way of promotion they consider to be the most effective...
#1
KingsMix
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 07:42:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby karhide 2017/08/17 07:58:41
Think you should post that type of post in either the Cakewalk "Coffee House" or "Songs" forum.
Leaning more towards better feedback in the Coffee House , for this subject.
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Slugbaby
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 13:06:14 (permalink)
I'm terrible at promoting my music, and it shows.
Anyone I know that makes money does it playing live.  This pays more in one night than selling 2000 singles on iTunes.  Plus, the show advertises the recordings for sale.
 
I'm curious to see what others say.

http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
 
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KingsMix
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 15:19:03 (permalink)
vdvorn
Is it appropriate to discuss the problems connected with the promotion of somebody's own music on this forum?
 
I would be interested to know the opinion of experienced people, which way of promotion they consider to be the most effective...


You should probably be more specific about the problems you are having or are concerned about.
Many people have great success with promoting their own music, Yes it takes a lot of work and consistency, but that's the price you pay for a record company not to have control over your art and the bulk of your (their) money, which is basically a glamorous loan.
First step is really getting your music and or songs up to snuff, not artistically (since that's subjective), but definitely production (mixing/mastering) wise.
It takes ground up work just like the old days when there was no internet, and you had to put feet to the pavement, flyers, shows, mixed with word of mouth etc.  For those who grew up in that era, the new model (internet/digital distribution/availability of self promotion/your own website) should look a whole lot better in terms of having control over your music, although it still takes a different kind of hard work and consistency.
The net is flooded with good and bad songs (production wise). At least start by getting  your songs to the best production quality as possible, which is  definitely in reach, being that you own the Studio (your DAW) and are not pressed by the ticking clock of a commercial facitlity.
#4
Slugbaby
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 15:37:34 (permalink)
I wonder if anyone has successfully avoided a major label, but hired a proper PR/Marketing company instead?
It seems to me that all we need now is to direct attention to our online stores.  Just like if you were selling any other product.

http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
 
Dell i5, 16Gb RAM, Focusrite 2i2 IO, Telecasters, P-bases, Personal Drama for a muse.
#5
LLyons
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 17:03:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby vdvorn 2017/08/17 19:32:33
   For me, there does not seem to be any one method for releases to the general public (its different for TV and Film placement). However the old fashioned way is working really really well out in Utah County.  Its all about building a fan base first, because they tweet friends, who facebook other friends, and their trust in you, helps promote trust to others.  We have a no name cowboy who, by working many hours a day for a year, is in a tie for the most downloads in the state for new artists. There are some pretty good ideas listed in a paper on the diskmakers web site.  In no particular order, for me..
 
Before promoting..
 
Know the target audience and write for them - you need product that relates to them on a emotional level.
Consider building or joining a songwriters pool to bounce ideas and songs off of. 
Learn the target size in your local area
Start with the local area first
  Test your ideas by watching and asking - ask target market folks, and not family
  Connect with musicians in your area who are fairly successful - successful folks have great ideas
Have the product consumer ready.
Have the products story - the particular reason it came about, what it means.  Share it.  See if it connects. 
Test the product - until you know your target markets desires, consider not releasing if it tests poorly. 
 
Promoting..
 
Find the target market radio station - get interviews, plural, for each release. This is free.
Find the target market tv station - schedule a performance.  This is free.
Create a songwriter facebook page and post in it daily.  This is free.
  Pics and images of daily music life (in studio, setups at gigs, live performances)
  A few minutes of live video at sound checks especially TV and Radio self promotions
  Point to snippets of music to share for free
Chose a distribution company - for a general overview of which one..
      http://aristake.com/?post=92
Release regularly, especially if you do not have a CD.  Everytime you release, relentlessly self promote. 
Oh - and and again relentlessly self promote. Its a dirty task, but someones gotta do it, and your the best one. 
 
Other...
 
When not performing or promoting, create more good songs.
Keep statistics and relentlessly promote them - fan count, download count,  TV and radio station interview count.
Personality counts - gratitude,  thankfulness, care and considerate behavior speak volumes and connects with others.  Most people in any target market value kind human nature.  
 

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#6
vdvorn
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 17:44:17 (permalink)
Slugbaby
I'm terrible at promoting my music, and it shows.
Anyone I know that makes money does it playing live.  This pays more in one night than selling 2000 singles on iTunes.  Plus, the show advertises the recordings for sale.
 
I'm curious to see what others say.


What is interesting, most of the famous bands make live-tours to promote the new album. It looks like for the unknown musicians to be just opposite - the shows advertise the recordings...
 
I am discouraged with a HUGE amount of "self-made" music being presented in the internet. I think, it could be harmful for the really talented authors, who just disappear in that ocean...
 
I have a proposal indeed. May be it could be useful to set a special place on this forum to discuss the works of each other recorded in Sonar? I could start with 2 of my new own songs on SoundCloud
 
https://soundcloud.com/user-2937695/the-lie-demo
https://soundcloud.com/user-2937695/it-was-a-time
 
I am working recently upon the third one - a power ballad - and planned to release a single or EP. But it looks like the better way is to find (or found) a band and try to play the live performances...
#7
Slugbaby
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 19:15:58 (permalink)
vdvorn
 
I have a proposal indeed. May be it could be useful to set a special place on this forum to discuss the works of each other recorded in Sonar? I could start with 2 of my new own songs on SoundCloud
 
https://soundcloud.com/user-2937695/the-lie-demo
https://soundcloud.com/user-2937695/it-was-a-time
 
I am working recently upon the third one - a power ballad - and planned to release a single or EP. But it looks like the better way is to find (or found) a band and try to play the live performances...


We have exactly that already:  http://forum.cakewalk.com/Songs-f89.aspx
 

http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
 
Dell i5, 16Gb RAM, Focusrite 2i2 IO, Telecasters, P-bases, Personal Drama for a muse.
#8
vdvorn
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 19:42:06 (permalink)
Slugbaby
I wonder if anyone has successfully avoided a major label, but hired a proper PR/Marketing company instead?
It seems to me that all we need now is to direct attention to our online stores.  Just like if you were selling any other product.


Well, I have read in Wiki that most of the famous bands succeeded after they found a good producer. But as to my recent experience modern producers are afraid to follow their intuition and prefer to rely upon something else as the quality of the music itself (fanbase, etc).
The same is with the labels...
#9
vdvorn
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 19:43:45 (permalink)
LLyons
   For me, there does not seem to be any one method for releases to the general public (its different for TV and Film placement). However the old fashioned way is working really really well out in Utah County.  Its all about building a fan base first, because they tweet friends, who facebook other friends, and their trust in you, helps promote trust to others.  We have a no name cowboy who, by working many hours a day for a year, is in a tie for the most downloads in the state for new artists. There are some pretty good ideas listed in a paper on the diskmakers web site.  In no particular order, for me..
 



Thanks, LLyons - very helpful post.
#10
Slugbaby
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 19:46:16 (permalink)
vdvorn
 
What is interesting, most of the famous bands make live-tours to promote the new album. It looks like for the unknown musicians to be just opposite - the shows advertise the recordings...
 

Actually, i'm not sure I agree.  While I've never discussed it with real A-list musicians, I used to know a B-list (Canadian a-list) band who were making $500K per night in stadiums.  But they didn't see royalties after getting the advance, even with decent sales.  Label costs, videos, and such, ate up all their record profits.  Apparently this is fairly standard.  
 
People are changing the way they listen to music now - streaming instead of purchasing. Add the social de-valuation of music (nobody considers it theft anymore to copy and distribute songs), and there's no money.  If i was still a touring musician (at a much lower level than the $500K guys) with professional aspirations, I'd be looking at my albums as simply promotional material for the show.  Even at my low level, I make more playing at one bar for an evening than I make in a month of online music sales (but like i said, my promo sucks).

http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
 
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#11
vdvorn
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 19:59:12 (permalink)
Slugbaby
vdvorn
 
What is interesting, most of the famous bands make live-tours to promote the new album. It looks like for the unknown musicians to be just opposite - the shows advertise the recordings...
 

Actually, i'm not sure I agree.  While I've never discussed it with real A-list musicians, I used to know a B-list (Canadian a-list) band who were making $500K per night in stadiums.  But they didn't see royalties after getting the advance, even with decent sales.  Label costs, videos, and such, ate up all their record profits.  Apparently this is fairly standard.  
 
People are changing the way they listen to music now - streaming instead of purchasing. Add the social de-valuation of music (nobody considers it theft anymore to copy and distribute songs), and there's no money.  If i was still a touring musician (at a much lower level than the $500K guys) with professional aspirations, I'd be looking at my albums as simply promotional material for the show.


Slugbaby, I am agree with what you say, but I meant as it was in the near past. There was even a notion "a supporting tour", that is a tour designed to support the selling of the album.
It looks like the situation has drastically changed...
How do you appreciate the future of the labels and musical producers? Will they survive?
#12
Slugbaby
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 20:08:36 (permalink)
In my opinion, labels will get out of the distribution business - it's all online anyway.
If I owned a "traditional record label,"  I would be putting all my efforts into becoming a Promotion/Facilitation provider.  To advertise the music, and drive buyers to my product.  Also to facilitate tours, videos, etc.  Basically trying to include Manager and Agent roles.  I think Live Nation is moving in this direction.
As for producers, I don't see their role changing at all.  Studios are disappearing at a sad rate, as more is done on home DAWs, but 99% of us don't have the talent and foresight that successful producers do.
 
What do you thnk?

http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
 
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#13
vdvorn
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 20:20:50 (permalink)
Slugbaby
In my opinion, labels will get out of the distribution business - it's all online anyway.
If I owned a "traditional record label,"  I would be putting all my efforts into becoming a Promotion/Facilitation provider.  To advertise the music, and drive buyers to my product.  Also to facilitate tours, videos, etc.  Basically trying to include Manager and Agent roles.  I think Live Nation is moving in this direction.
As for producers, I don't see their role changing at all.  Studios are disappearing at a sad rate, as more is done on home DAWs, but 99% of us don't have the talent and foresight that successful producers do.
 
What do you thnk?


Agree completely about the labels and studios, I myself have told this to one owner of the studio to become something like promotion facilitation provider.
As for successful producers with talent and foresight - the problem is HOW TO CONTACT them? I am not sure the emails with demo links I have sent are reaching them...
#14
Linear Phase
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 21:45:50 (permalink)
Promoting music is hard.  You have to a little money.  A lot of editing skills.  A youtube channel.  And Game of Thrones vibe to your music videos ie sex and violence sells music.
 
Or I guess you could go to business school and get a degree in marketing.  But really just take my word for it:  YouTube, music videos that have lots of sex, and tons of violence.
 
Remember Biggy Smalls?

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#15
vdvorn
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/17 21:55:26 (permalink)
Linear Phase
Promoting music is hard.  You have to a little money.  A lot of editing skills.  A youtube channel.  And Game of Thrones vibe to your music videos ie sex and violence sells music.
 
Or I guess you could go to business school and get a degree in marketing.  But really just take my word for it:  YouTube, music videos that have lots of sex, and tons of violence.
 
Remember Biggy Smalls?




Frankly, I wouldn't like to promote my music to the people who like sex and tons of violence. I think, there is at least 5 per cent people, who do not, and I would like to address and promote to them...
#16
slartabartfast
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/18 18:03:40 (permalink)
Slugbaby
In my opinion, labels will get out of the distribution business - it's all online anyway.
If I owned a "traditional record label,"  I would be putting all my efforts into becoming a Promotion/Facilitation provider.  To advertise the music, and drive buyers to my product.  Also to facilitate tours, videos, etc.  Basically trying to include Manager and Agent roles.  I think Live Nation is moving in this direction.
As for producers, I don't see their role changing at all.  Studios are disappearing at a sad rate, as more is done on home DAWs, but 99% of us don't have the talent and foresight that successful producers do.
 
What do you thnk?


I think you have just re-discovered what is now being called the 360 deal. In fact, most of the record companies have realized that they will do much better taking a big piece of live performance than by selling "records." Some of the biggest name companies in signing artists to give up a piece of everything, recording, live performance, sales of merchandise etc. are businesses that formerly set up performance tours. In return for giving up a big chunk of what the artists used to be able to use as a source of revenue while catching up (if that were even possible given the egregious fees and contract gotchas) to the advance for a recording contract, they receive the kind of promotion that a recording contract used to provide. Since a promoter can easily hire a studio to do the recording, and distribute via the internet, these deals may well be the end of the traditional "recording" industry, as well as the ability of artists to keep a chunk of the revenue stream that used to sustain them when record sales could not. 
#17
konradh
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/18 18:57:57 (permalink)
Everyone says selling music (CDs/downloads) is dead.  That is not correct.  Sales of CDs and downloads are way down from previous years, but millions are still sold.
 
The bad news is that it's hard to get people to buy.  The good news is that an independent artist doesn't need to sell 5 million like Katy Perry. 7,000-10,000 albums a year at $10 each is worth doing when you are not splitting the money with anyone. Even 3,000 is a pretty decent side income and that's only selling to .00004% of the Earth's population.

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#18
Slugbaby
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/18 19:01:37 (permalink)
I just remembered - David Byrne wrote a great book called "How Music Works."  Along with many other things, he describes the various types of record deals and benefits/drawbacks of each.  Personal insight as he's been involved in all types, with huge success and some "failures."

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Linear Phase
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/19 01:37:44 (permalink)
Slugbaby
I just remembered - David Byrne wrote a great book called "How Music Works."  Along with many other things, he describes the various types of record deals and benefits/drawbacks of each.  Personal insight as he's been involved in all types, with huge success and some "failures."




Another great book!!  Confessions of a record producer!   This is all about, "how music really works."
 
https://www.amazon.com/Co...-Revised/dp/0879309482

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#20
auto_da_fe
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Re: Promotion of music 2017/08/19 21:29:28 (permalink)
Arcade Fire gave a free copy of their new CD everything now with each ticket sold.
Merchandising and ticket sales is where the money is these days.  That is why a lot of new artists are in 360 degree contracts where the label gets a good piece of everything the artist sells or does.
 
I am selling 100 songs for 5 F***in' Bucks.  I have a paypal link for 5 dollars on soundcloud and will send a google drive link to download them all.   Just started but will keep you posted if I sell any.  (This is kind of a Garage sale / Comment on what music sales are worth )
 
https://soundcloud.com/airportface
 
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