Punchy Tom Samples

I'm trying to get a good tom sound using samples but most of them have a strong strike/impact sound. I'd like to know how to get a punchy tom sound while subduing the strike/impact sound. Any help would be appreciated.

CarvinAbuser


I'm trying to get a good tom sound using samples but most of them have a strong strike/impact sound. I'd like to know how to get a punchy tom sound while subduing the strike/impact sound. Any help would be appreciated.

Try using the Transient Shaper in Sonar. This will allow you to custom control how hard you want the tom to strike, how long you want it to resonate and with the "timbre" controls you can literally tweak the sound and impact that the tom will have. It gives you far more control than a compressor does for the actual tone shaping. I'd still recommend a compressor AFTER the transient shaper though to keep the toms at a consistent level but trust me, you'll have far better results and control using a tool of this nature for what you are looking to do instead of a compressor to get these types of effects. I can whip up a 10 minute video to show you what I mean if need be. When using the Transient Shaper, set threshold all the way to the left or you won't get the impact of the other knobs. Try it...it's an amazing tool that you'll use all the time. :)
 
-Danny

batsbrew


not everybody has transient shaper, danny.

that's why i just kept it simple.

Understood...I wasn't going against your advice...your way is one of the best ways....it's just hard if someone isn't experienced with a compressor. The Transient Shaper has been in Sonar since 8.5 I believe (or earlier? Can't remember) so I had assumed he most likely had it in his version of Sonar....and it would be super easy for him to get what he's looking for simply by running the threshold on the TS all the way left, and messing with the attack. Hard right on the attack...more smack, more to the left on the attack, less smack. From there, the decay would control how long he wanted it to resonate and then if he chose to use the timbre to further tweak the sound of how the toms impact, he could do that too. But the attack alone in that plug would soften his hits the way he wants them. One knob is all it would take which is why I offered this advice. :)
 
-Danny

+11111111 on Transient Shaper. Also 1176 compressors can help the smack of drums when pushed to its limits. IK has one in T-Racks called the Black 76.

Depending on which vsti you're using, BFD2 (yeah, here I go again) gives you quite a bit of shaping possibilities om all kit pieces, including toms.

Choices are Damp amount, Damp frequency, Dynamics & Tune

you can do an awful lot just by manipulating these controls, and this means your transient shaper & compressor are having less work to do.

batsbrew


 i knew you'd understand...
i just wanted to make it clear.

i agree with you, tho, the fancier (smarter) plugins like transient shaper are better tools, they were designed just for that kind of duty.


i still think, especially for beginner and aspiring mixers, that learning how to use a basic tool like a basic compressor, to do these kinds of things, gives you a much broader understanding of exactly what it is you are doing to the signal.


i have an unusual distaste for the 'One Knob' style approach, but heck, if it works, it works.

i just think some knowledge is lost in that process, tho.

And I agree with you also. No worries man, I know you know what you're talking about. I'd never try to go against your advice....I just figured this guy would probably have an easier time with the TS over a compressor. :) Learning the art of compression in all aspects is super important and should be one of the first things people try to grasp. The thing that makes it hard though is, when someone doesn't know what to listen for like you or I would, a compressor can drive them insane...especially when they are trying to use it for effect purposes instead of leveling or tightening up a signal, know what I mean? :)
 
I too am against the one knob plugs and won't even touch the Waves 1 knob plugs that I have. I don't like the sound of them at all and I like a lot more control for everything. But that said, I sincerely feel it's just as you said. A tool like the TS is just made for that thing the OP is looking for and for the most part, though I'd not condone just the "one knob" attack being used, it's amazing how that does exactly what he's looking for just by adjusting that one knob. LOL!
 
It's kinda good he posted in this thread because it made me revisit the TS which I have pretty much given up on because I like the SPL version so much better. My problem was I wasn't using the threshold knob correctly on the TS and once you turn it counter-clockwise, the thing totally comes to life in a good way. I don't know how much experience you have with that thing man, but give it a shot sometime. It's quite amazing and cuts out the time it would take even guys like us to dial the same thing in with a compressor. And the best part about it, it hits harder than a compressor would transient wise. I was experimenting with trying to cop the same sound with a few compressors as what I was able to get with the TS. Though the compressors were darned close, if I really wanted something to crack out on me, the TS smoked the compressor every time for that sort of thing.
 
I also agree with you on the knowledge thing being lost. I try to teach my students the art of compression first so they sort of have a background on it...then I'll introduce them to the transient type plugs. It's kinda like in the 50's, we had to use a tire iron to take off lugs where now we have air-guns. The principal is the same but the new way is much faster. The key thing I also try to stress is a transient plug shouldn't be the substitute for a compressor...but in my humble opinion for getting more pop/crack or relaxing an instrument, I feel these actually do a better job. At least they have for me. :)
 
-Danny

You could split out the tom hits to clips and bring the fade in thingy up to soften the initial smack. Of course, unless you wanna use all that other fancy stuff:)

timidi


You could split out the tom hits to clips and bring the fade in thingy up to soften the initial smack. Of course, unless you wanna use all that other fancy stuff:)

nice...

when i'm mixing my drums  these days, i use the transient tool built into the superior mixer designed by sonalksis

Ditto. It's the best of the bundled effects in SD2. But still not great for the OP's mission, which is to soften the stick. Do that with a conventional shaper like the one in Superior and you just lose all the attack rather than just the initial transient. The nice thing about Trans-X is that you can attenuate just the first few milliseconds and leave the rest of the envelope alone.

Thanks for the replies. I tried the Transient Shaper and Percussion Strip, they work well, but also cause latency issues. Is there a a way around this?

I'm just wondering here. What is the purpose of softening the stick's presence in the tom hit sample? 

I'm kind of thinking that I might actually want to keep the hit but what does softening actually do here?

I believe most higher quality software compressors have very fast attack / release rates as well as look ahead features that will allow you to tame transients - if a transient shaper isn't available. I remember a number of years ago being able to radically change a very aggressive ride cymbal stick attack transient using only the sonitus compressor. It was a bit of a different challenge in that the cymbal sustain could make pumping susceptible...but with a bit fine tuning it came out pretty decent.