dappa1
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Put your tricks and tips here!
It would be an advantage to me cos I really would like to know what you guys do when mixing Bass or drums or even synthy sounding instruments. And what you are looking for Everyone sees differently, so let us know what you do!
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bitflipper
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 11:03 AM
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All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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AT
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 11:53 AM
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https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 12:07 AM
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Don't be afraid of using LPF
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batsbrew
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 1:17 PM
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Middleman
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 1:50 PM
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HP kick at 20-30. Depending on sound or sample +4 to +12 on kick with narrow Q at 50Hz, then cut 90 to 150 centered around 110 anywhere from -4 to -10 with moderate Q. (If its live drums a LP Filter may be in order to remove room and cymbals) At the same time HP bass at 40 then wide cut from 90 down to 50Hz centered around 70 from -4 to -10 and bump 100 to 110Hz +4 to +6. Use the kick for sidechain control of the bass compressor for some added fun. I gave ranges because all is highly dependent on what you start with. This is a framework of where to begin, not an end all solution. For the synths it depends on their role in the mix. Are they embellishment in the background (HPass) or are they driving the low end (similar to the bass guitar role) Different genres of music require different approaches. Batsbrew's tune up recommendation is critical before each click of the record button. Recording is a lot of mundane work to capture an inspired moment. Practice the inspired moment a lot so that playing mechanics are muscle memory and you can concentrate on the passion. Better yet, let someone else control the record button while you focus on the inspired moment.
post edited by Middleman - July 18, 12 7:53 PM
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droddey
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 5:13 PM
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As a side comment on the HPF/LPF thing, also accept that the world will not end if you have a mic more than 1 millimeter from a guitar amp, and various other things. Back the mics off and you'll naturally get reduced low-lows and presence highs, and be closer to where you want to be without processing, possibly all the way there if you also are diligent about mixing with your fingers. This was a completely standard procedure back when, but it somehow seems to have gotten lost for a lot of people, or so it seems sometimes from reading comments. Yeh, most of us homies don't have great sounding rooms, but if you experiment you can probably find places in a reasonably treated room where you can get back from the mic and not have problems that overwhelm the benefits I think. And you also just naturally get a more 'pushed back' sound without needing so much ambience to create it artificially. Not that so many people are into distance or depth in recordings these days I guess. But, if you are, try getting it naturally and you might be successful and avoid yet still more processing. Once you've learned the tricks that work in your room, it won't be an ongoing time burden probably.
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alexoosthoek
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 6:40 PM
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droddey As a side comment on the HPF/LPF thing, also accept that the world will not end if you have a mic more than 1 millimeter from a guitar amp, and various other things. Back the mics off and you'll naturally get reduced low-lows and presence highs, and be closer to where you want to be without processing, possibly all the way there if you also are diligent about mixing with your fingers. This was a completely standard procedure back when, but it somehow seems to have gotten lost for a lot of people, or so it seems sometimes from reading comments. Yeh, most of us homies don't have great sounding rooms, but if you experiment you can probably find places in a reasonably treated room where you can get back from the mic and not have problems that overwhelm the benefits I think. And you also just naturally get a more 'pushed back' sound without needing so much ambience to create it artificially. Not that so many people are into distance or depth in recordings these days I guess. But, if you are, try getting it naturally and you might be successful and avoid yet still more processing. Once you've learned the tricks that work in your room, it won't be an ongoing time burden probably. Yes, there's nothing wrong with having a little room in the the mic as long as you are not recording it in the bathroom :)
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Philip
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 7:26 PM
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HPF Bass at 79Hz (learned this tip from Danny). I've been using a Q of 1-ish. HPF Kick at also: oft as high as 50Hz: Q-slopes are different (by ear). Keep low energies 'contained' to allow massive mean and peak volume increases in the mids and highs, IMHO. Manually comp both the kick and bass tracks ... every spike with a unique compression ... to 'fit with the mids and highs ... to command your mix. Allow kick and bass to rule the non-vox sections and be louder there. If affordable, try different limiters/maximizers ... especially if you are a self-masterer. If you are concerned with song-maximization for ultimate dance-loudness (aka hip hop or loud metal) ... consider the Slate Fg-x Comp/Limiter (used judiciously of course) ... either alone or after another top-quality buss limiter. But if bass and kick tracks are to be more artsy than loud ... forget the Slate for those sections; I'd use other quality maximizers to get a scratchy idea of the master. Applying tape emulations may help for bass and/or kick ... but I'm not fully convinced. Kick drums always require fx help to enhance the subs in my mixes ... and to discern it from the snare. A tinny kick is not my friend. Personally, I prefer the kick to sound like a heart-beat: That always involves enhancing the lows with a quality sub-equalizer or sub-fx. That holds true for most of my attempted genres. The kick usually succeeds (for me) as the lowest EQ of everything. I've tried making bass lower in many mixes (and sections) ... and I've failed oft. While kick rumble may have forgiveness ... bass rumble is my sworn enemy.
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 9:25 PM
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I've got to ask... What is so special about exactly 79Hz....? Does it have something to do with the E2 being 82Hz and the D# being 78Hz? If so, this would really only apply to songs written in E, would it not?
post edited by mattplaysguitar - July 18, 12 9:30 PM
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Jimbo21
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 10:01 PM
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@Phillip: What do you mean by "manually compress both kick and bass tracks"? Do you mean just separate comps on each track set manually or is something else involved?
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 10:08 PM
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I am a bit against quoting frequencies and Q settings for any situation. Because every situation can be a little different. One should use your ears and let you evaluate from that what you need to do. Start with great kick (or any) sounds, don't try and turn an average one into a good one. Won't happen no matter what you do. You can improve it for sure and get some of the way there but nothing compared to getting the source just SO right. For example placing a HPF set at 80Hz may or may not be a good idea. Firstly what about the slope of the HPF in question. Big difference between 6 dB/Oct and say 24 dB /Oct. If a bass recording was a little boomy at say 40 Hz then placing a HPF set at 80 Hz with a slope of 6 dB /Oct may be just the ticket to bring the bass sound back to normal. It means the filter is 6 dB down at 40Hz which is our lowest note remember. Do you really want to be carving our valuable 40 Hz information from the bass sound. But park a 24 dB/Oct HPF set at 80- Hz means there will be no bass left and it will all sound a little thin you see. I have found doing a lot of mastering lately one can get over concerned with HPF on everything which is NOT great advice at all. (at track level that is, it is sort of OK advice but be careful putting HPF over everything. How much low end are you taking out as well , you have to check that!) Because the EQ stage in the first mastering process can often bring about amazing correction of the low end (of the whole mix) and one can get it all sorted in one go before the sounds hits the compressor. Once again with this last mastering job I have just done (hip hop) way too much bass as usual. After fixing the bass EQ the tracks just sounded way better and quite different after the bass was reigned in. Biggest problem I have by far mastering is too much bass on nearly every mix I come across. Are you people all deaf to bass or something! Get real with the bottom end and learn to keep it in perspective. The other issue I get with a lot of mixes is also they are way too bright! What are people thinking? Top end like you would not believe. Think of highs as being like bright starts in a dark sky. If everything is bright then nothing is bright. eg a million bright starts makes it hard to see just one. But when the top end on most tracks is nice and in perspective also then only a few things actually need to be bright. eg a few bright stars in the dark sky surrounded by a lot of medium or duller stars. That is the more ideal situation. When you mix for long periods your perspective on top end goes out the window and is severely degraded remember that. (one ultimate album for top end is David Gilmour's 'On and Island')
post edited by Jeff Evans - July 18, 12 10:23 PM
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Middleman
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 10:25 PM
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Well, new people need a framework so you have to give them something. A rough outline of the game will help them utilize their bat and ball, metaphorically speaking.
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droddey
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 10:37 PM
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Jeff Evans Do you really want to be carving our valuable 40 Hz information from the bass sound. But park a 24 dB/Oct HPF set at 80- Hz means there will be no bass left and it will all sound a little thin you see. It's not actually that cut and dry. Bass has huge amounts of overtones. Rolling off pretty steeply below 80Hz may not be that obvious in a lot of cases, because the overtones are huge and sound lower than they really are. And it also depends on the part. There may not be any notes even used down low on the fourth string to worry about. Another trick is to use a not terribly steep low shelf around 100Hz or so, and bring it down quite a bit, like maybe 9dB or so, then push up around 250'ish with a fairly wide Q to emphasize the 160 to 320 octave. It'll sound a lot lower than it really is. You do need to play closer to the bridge though to insure a complex overtoned sort of sound. If you play up near the neck and are getting really pure tones, then that trick won't work very well. It'll almost disappear. All those fake bass booster are effectively creating overtones for the same reason. They sound lower than they really are. Our ears seem to fill in the lower notes. I think that lots of recorded music in the past didn't have much first octave content. Today everyone has huge bass and massive high end. But it used to be more about getting all the stuff in between those extremes right, since that's what everyone was going to hear anyway. And it's still what most everyone is going to hear, maybe even more so since the death of serious music listening in a controlled environment by so many people these days. And some folks, like JJP, still argue for getting the middle right, and I think it's a good strategy generally, though not for all genres obviously.
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 10:38 PM
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Good point Middleman as I do tend to talk from a more experienced perspective at times. But even as a sound engineering teacher when we do get to that point of getting our students to start recording we talk about getting things right at the source first. Get the drums sounding great in the room, tune them up. Get the guitar sounds happening before you mike them. etc etc Get the vocalist to sing properly first! And if you are someone that creates music from samples and virtual instruments, same applies here too. Choose the right kick sound or bass sound etc. And learn how to program the instruments in question so one can easily go in there and edit something which is often all it takes to get the sound really happening from the source. Once your initial tracks are sounding good then one can look at using eq to make things sound a little different or better. Be careful about specific advice regarding cutting or boosting. As I said it may not work. eg Dean's advice above as quoted. eg Another trick is to use a not terribly steep low shelf around 100Hz or so, and bring it down quite a bit, like maybe 9dB or so, then push up around 250'ish with a fairly wide Q to emphasize the 160 to 320 octave. This could excellent on some bass players sound for sure but what happens when a guy comes in with an Alembic bass sound that is the bass sound from hell and literally perfect as I have heard numerous times before. . That eq setup that Dean is suggesting may be very bad and totally trash that guys sound. See what I mean. Listen first and decide what may or may not need to be done. When one starts saying you have to boost this or cut that they are implying everyone's sound is the same and it is far from that. Sure there are things that do well consistently but others need a very individual approach.
post edited by Jeff Evans - July 18, 12 10:58 PM
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Middleman
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 18, 12 10:44 PM
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Jeff Evans getting things right at the source first. get the sound really happening from the source. Once your initial tracks are sounding good then one can look at using eq to make things sound a little different or better. Totally agree. I spent years trying to make bad sounds good and until I started working on EQ from the source with mics, placement and distance, as well as room, I was not moving in the right direction.
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Linear Phase
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 0:07 PM
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Have a specific reason why you are doing something..
You'd be surprised how different your mixes come out, when you use the, "I'm a about to say something stupid," filter in your brain, but apply it to mixing.. You know the filter I'm talking about? Like when your wife/kid/brother/boyfriend/best friend... needs a $100 for beer or a haircut... You need to mix your music with the same filter...
too many lasers... Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
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Philip
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 0:20 PM
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mattplaysguitar I've got to ask... What is so special about exactly 79Hz....? Does it have something to do with the E2 being 82Hz and the D# being 78Hz? If so, this would really only apply to songs written in E, would it not? +1 Hahahahaha :):):) You're absolutely right, Matt (so is Jeff about mal-quoting freqs and Qs) ... and/or assuming the bass guitar stays near that freq. I don't know why 79Hz works so well for me, TBH. I suppose bass guitar harmonics play a great part or something. ... originally I rolled off a lot lower (even 30hz!!!!) and had serious low energy rumble + conflicts with the kick. But using 79 Hz has saved me a lot of headache, low energy headroom for the kick, etc. Yeah, its like the bass is not even a sub instrument anymore (if that makes sense) But what seems to work quite well for me won't necessarily work for others. And like Jeff and others alluded, things aren't always that formulaic and dogmatic. @ Jimbo: Glad you asked. This may be my greatest pearl to date: You might already do this! 1) The kick drum gets isolated to its own kick track and bounced to a 24-bit clip ... however ... I make certain all kick effects (comps, sub-enhancements, limiters, tape, EQ, HPFs, etc.) are bounced ... so the clip is wet ... and not a boring-dry kick. 2) Apply a gain envelope to the wet clip. 3) Manually automate that gain envelope differently at every kick spike. Also, I then manually slice and dice the kick clips as necessary ... i.e., to duck the kick to precede the bass attack transients by an arbitrary 10 msecs or such. But usually the bass attack is slow enough that the kick drum can fit OK ... without ducking, IMHO. Repeat 1-3 for the bass clip to "manually comp" the bass clip(s) Repeat 1-3 for the snare clip to "manually comp" the snare clip(s) Actually, I manually comp everything ... Because I'm neurotically compulsive, I don't mind the time it takes. 'Manually compressing' the kick and bass has other benefits, iirc: - The song feels more lively - The center of the panorama becomes more robust and meaty - The left and right channels get more balanced as these weighty energies become more dominant in the phantom center - The ME has less manual comping to do - The song can be made much louder in the mids and highs Of course, please forgive my grammar, loopiness, mistakes, etc.
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 1:37 AM
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I guess it depends a lot of weather of not you're going to have the bass at the bottom, or the kick at the bottom. With a high HPF like that (79Hz ish area), you know the kick is going to be sitting under it. And maybe that works best for your music. I personally use an octaver on my bass which adds a sub harmonic to the sound. I actually like it not for the deep bass it creates, but for the higher harmonics. You can add this octaver, put on a HPF and it still sounds really deep because of the additional harmonics on the octave below copy. It creates this cool audible flutter power type sound which I like. I don't use it on all my songs or all the time though. Often if I switch to playing up higher on the bass I'll kick the octaver in to stop the dreaded bass cut. I like the sound it brings when I kick it in for a chorus too. But then other times, the sound of a nice, natural deep note sounds better. All depends on the song. I'm using it with flat wound strings which I really like the sound of too. I feel it provides a much smoother bass sound and the bright twang from standard new bass strings doesn't suit my music. Both I think are not overly used bass sounds (flat wounds and an octaver in particular) so I think it helps a little in creating my own sound.
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droddey
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 2:01 AM
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I obviously wasn't suggesting that someone do exactly the frequencies I indicated every time no matter what. Of course you should adapt to the circumstances. It also assumes that you aren't the person who is recording it. If you are, you can do more to get it like that in the process of tracking it. But it's definitely not the case that a bass part always has to have lots of low, low end in order to have impact and provide the foundation. And the more articulate and active the bass part, the less it wants generally. The really heavy low end is more of what seems a modern thing to me, where the mix is effectively super-scooped because the low end and the high end are pushed so much. It's probably also related to the loudness wars, since boosting the lows and highs is effectively what 'loudness' buttons don on boom boxes. Our ears are more sensitive to lows/highs relative to mids and the volume goes up. So boosting them is a form of simulated loudness enhancement. Anyhoo, there is that completely other way of looking it, of concentrating on the middle and not having nearly so much low-low and super-crispy high. And it will likely sound better on more systems as well, since the meat of it is in the area that most systems can reproduce more easily.
post edited by droddey - July 19, 12 2:06 AM
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 2:46 AM
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Following that principle above, Dean, it could be interesting to mix with an eq on the master bus with a LPF and HPF set to simulate standard consumer systems and just do full range checks every now and then. Obviously bring everything back and do a final tune up of the highs and lows at the end of your mixing though. It would be interesting to compare results. Much more attention could be paid into the mid range and really getting it to sit nice. I would imagine this would be even more counter productive for a beginner (they keep trying to boost those parts anyway and make it even worse still), not necessary for a professional, but maybe us guys sitting in that medium level could benefit from a little bit of this in our mixing... Of course the ideal is using an actual speaker designed for this above purpose, using it as a check speaker. I do believe a good number of studios at the very least have something like this for a quick check. But I wonder how it would compare with just using a simple eq on your master bus? It may just help you focus your attention where it really matters. The other option is to actually boost your highs and lows so you don't add too much. And then the final option is to maybe just learn how to mix well ;)
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 3:20 AM
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I would be very careful about putting eq's and things into your monitor system. It is not a common technique and not done very often. (I am not talking ARC here, I am talking what Matt is suggesting like a massive bass and treble rolloff in your main speakers) Mixing into a compressor doing light compression is about the only thing I would do in terms of processing in between your mixer and your monitors. The other reason it is not a good idea is that you are still hearing your main monitors as opposed to another speaker or set of speakers. The Auratone concept works best. Feed L+R into a small 3" or 4" single mono driver type speaker. And do this at low volume as well. That concept already solves all your issues. The low volume means you are not really hearing bass and the very highs and also the speaker being what it is also removing these parts of the spectrum and you are just hearing mids anyway. I have championed the idea of the single mono speaker many times here and at low volume as well. It is simply a revelation. It is so revealing and I spend most of my mixing time on it only going onto main speakers here and there for obvious checks. Your mixes will sound way better for it as well. In fact I would say that the small speaker is the biggest improvement to your mixes you can possibly make. Your room acoustics wont effect it either. I just sit right in front of it and listen up close. When everything sounds perfect in the small speaker when you go up loud on your main monitors the mix is always incredible. It is also the only way to balance vocal levels against music or backing tracks as well. Something like this: http://www.avantonepro.com/Avantone-Active-MixCube-Powered-Full-Range-Mini-Reference-Monitors.html They make passive models too if you have got a spare poweramp lying around.
post edited by Jeff Evans - July 19, 12 3:23 AM
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 3:58 AM
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Another point about rolling off your extreme bass low end. Don't forget the human ear/brain combination has this wonderful ability to reconstruct a missing fundamental based on the harmonics present in a signal. Use this ability to your advantage.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 6:07 AM
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mattplaysguitar I've got to ask... What is so special about exactly 79Hz....? Does it have something to do with the E2 being 82Hz and the D# being 78Hz? If so, this would really only apply to songs written in E, would it not? I'll take a stab at that one Matt. :) (I actually HP 80 Hz....79...close enough lol) On my bass tones, the meat of the bass seems to kick from 80 Hz to about 130 Hz. Anything under 80 to me starts to sound too sub low. I personally don't like that stuff in my basses. I like to give the kick reign from 55 on up until it starts to mask...then I back it down and isolate it more. So when Philip gets a bass guitar sample from me, controlling 80 Hz is usually going to sculpt it just right. I've usually taken care of everything else in that tone, so all he has to decide is how much of that 80 he wants. Using a Sonitus eq HP, anything under -1.6 on the Q starts to remove subs. 9 times out of 10 a HP on the dominating frequency is all you need to do to a bass tone that was recorded correctly unless you're going for something else. Now with other bass tones from clients, it's not going to be an 80 Hz HP...it's always different. But I personally find 80 Hz to be a nice frequency to accentuate bass guitar lows in quite a few situations. That seems to be the low end that I like the most in a bass as far as the low end push goes. Some like to go lower...but it depends on what you're faced with on your kick drum. With a kick that has more beater attack and less low end, you can allow more bass guitar lows to be present. When you have a kick that needs more thud like in Philip's music, you need a different approach on the bass guitar or it all turns into mud. Unlike Jeff, I don't like 40 Hz in my basses at all unless it's some sort of specialty thing that needs to be there. Same with kicks...other than bass drop type stuff, I see no need for much 40 hz in a project at all other than maybe a slight over-tone here and there. And when it gets used, it has to be tight or I just don't like the effects of it. To me, excessive low end frequencies ruin more mixes than those who use excessive high end. Bass is the death of a mix 9 times out of 10 followed by excessive low mid and mid range congestion. Everyone seems to go for warm, big and bottomy....to me, it never sounds right no matter who is mixing it. Most of the new Nickelback has this sub low stuff happening. It sounds like absolute @ss in real monitors and in your car....yet in ear buds, it's acceptable. I like to get a happy medium that works for everything...and as long as excessive lows are in the picture, they are not going to give you that happy medium. -Danny
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 6:29 AM
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I don't like a lot of 40 Hz either. I agree with Danny in that bottom end is the death of a lot of mixes. But the mix is one thing but mastering is another. I have found in mastering I am getting the ideal bottom end by rolling off at 60 Hz, not a steep slope but not too slow either. So that frequency seems to be in the middle of 40 and 80 Hz and it is interesting as it seems to provide a decent low end without thinning it out very much but has the ability to really control the bottom end and reign it in nicely. I find this gets rid of the sub stuff and the deep stuff which does not really help. It still amazes me though how sorting out the low end really defines how the mids and highs sound after doing that. If you want to punch the mids through a mistake that could be made in mastering is leaving the low end alone and start boosting mids. But if you control and reign in the low end suddenly the mids just poke forward nicely and all without touching them and isn't it great when you get something for nothing like that or by taking something away rather than boosting something else. Mastering is one way to do it but keeping the low end in check during the mix is also a good and better way to do it as well. I think you have turn up the music pretty loud actually to really hear how the bottom is really sounding. Some here say oh wow 85 dB SPL is just so loud and I cannot go that high for various reasons. But even at 85 dB SPL you don't really hear the bass so well. I find once you get into 95 dB and plus levels then the bass really stands out and begins to shine. Of course you don't have to stay up there for long but I still believe you have to go up loud at some time during an important mix. When you jump in your car to check out a mix do you do it softly, I say no you don't you crank it, well I do anyway!
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 6:42 AM
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Jeff Evans Mastering is one way to do it but keeping the low end in check during the mix is also a good and better way to do it as well. I think you have turn up the music pretty loud actually to really hear how the bottom is really sounding. Some here say oh wow 85 dB SPL is just so loud and I cannot go that high for various reasons. But even at 85 dB SPL you don't really hear the bass so well. I find once you get into 95 dB and plus levels then the bass really stands out and begins to shine. Of course you don't have to stay up there for long but I still believe you have to go up loud at some time during an important mix. When you jump in your car to check out a mix do you do it softly, I say no you don't you crank it, well I do anyway![/quote Yeah mastering is a totally different animal in how *I* deal with low end. I was speaking more from a mix perspective. Watch curbing 60 Jeff...it will take away the "oomph" in your kick drums just about always. Try removing 40 and below as this will allow the good stuff in the 50's and 60's to still be there for impact purposes. The only time I touch 60 in a mastering situation is when someone may have too much thud in a kick drum or they have their bass accentuating in that area. Most times though, once I remove the low mid mud and all the stuff under 40, I can actually pump 60 up a dB or so to add a bit more definition to the kick or bass guitar. But it's rare for me to cut in that area...then again, it depends on the style of music. For rock, kicks and basses are going to end up in this area and need the force there. Sometimes a mix may have too much of this, other times, not enough. It's always different though as we know. :) -Danny
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 6:44 AM
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What the heck happened to that post?! LOL! Sorry about that Jeff! It should read: Yeah mastering is a totally different animal in how *I* deal with low end. I was speaking more from a mix perspective. Watch curbing 60 Jeff...it will take away the "oomph" in your kick drums just about always. Try removing 40 and below as this will allow the good stuff in the 50's and 60's to still be there for impact purposes. The only time I touch 60 in a mastering situation is when someone may have too much thud in a kick drum or they have their bass accentuating in that area. Most times though, once I remove the low mid mud and all the stuff under 40, I can actually pump 60 up a dB or so to add a bit more definition to the kick or bass guitar. But it's rare for me to cut in that area...then again, it depends on the style of music. For rock, kicks and basses are going to end up in this area and need the force there. Sometimes a mix may have too much of this, other times, not enough. It's always different though as we know. :) -Danny
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 6:54 AM
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If I am mastering I don't have any control over the mix of course. I don't take any 60Hz out either. I leave that right up at 0 dB but start the roll off from there downward which seems to work a lot of times during mastering. I have also done what you suggest as well Danny and kill below 40 Hz and even bump 60 Hz up a little. When I am doing a mix though this does not happen in the mastering situation (me mastering that is) because one can control things much more so in the mix situation by pulling down the rumble in some instruments while pushing up others in a similar area to add oomph etc. BTW Danny I am keen to get the Waves API 2500 compressor plugin. I am getting a lot of mastering work lately. I have been using digital EQ (Pultec and LP64, they are both amazing especially together!) and limiting of course but using the C2 as the analogue compressor. (its not mine though) I am just a bit nervous because I love how the C2 sounds it is just incredible. But I also believe you when you say things like the plugin API may be just as good. (as the real one or the C2) Is it OK? You are going to say yes it is aren't you LOL!
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 8:19 AM
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Jeff BTW Danny I am keen to get the Waves API 2500 compressor plugin. I am getting a lot of mastering work lately. I have been using digital EQ (Pultec and LP64, they are both amazing especially together!) and limiting of course but using the C2 as the analogue compressor. (its not mine though) I am just a bit nervous because I love how the C2 sounds it is just incredible. But I also believe you when you say things like the plugin API may be just as good. (as the real one or the C2) Is it OK? You are going to say yes it is aren't you LOL! LOL!!! I'd never say anything digital or something modeled would be just as good...that's for sure. However, I do feel that the differences are too subtle to really fuss about other than when you are using an analogue piece to "color". To me, digital does not have that aspect down quite yet. But as far as how well these things work, I'd say just as good as far as the inner workings go. The API is one of the best compressors Waves has ever put out. And it DOES add a bit of coloration, but not to the extent that the real hardware version does. They just (in my opinion) don't quite have the circuitry thing down yet other than how the UAD stuff comes darned close yet still falls a little short. As for it comparing to your borrowed C2, it's a different animal. I think you could come close using a few other pieces in conjunction with the API 2500, but by itself, it's going to give you different results than the hardware C2...that's for sure. It all depends on how much you need that added analogue coloration, Jeff. See man, to me, most of the analogue coloration I hear comes by way of softening highs or pushing low mids a bit more. This to me can be achieved with soft eq to compensate. The other form of coloration comes by way of softly clipped transients that give us that tube saturated type sound. I don't feel anyone quite has that down yet...although like I've mentioned, UAD to me has it down enough to where it doesn't matter "as much". I'll put it to you this way, if you were to grab a track and process it with your C2 and then grab an unprocessed track and try to cop it with the API and a few other things, I sincerely believe you would come so close to getting it right that it wouldn't matter...and quite possibly no one but you would notice the subtle differences. This is why I have somewhat taken the stand I've taken on analogue gear. It has its place, it does make a difference...but it's a subjective difference that no one will really notice other than those "in the field" and even there, whether it's good or bad will always be subjective. But rest assured, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to come close using the API and the Pultec or LP 64 to get the sound you're looking for. The Pultec is so transparent, you should be able to sculpt your mix with the coloration the C2 would give you. I'm not sure which one you use, but the Pultec pro I use from UAD is remarkable in the coloration area. It's a very different kind of eq that doesn't get as much praise as it should because of what it DOESN't do. It's one of those "icing on the cake" types of eq's in my opinion...sort of like the Manley Massive Passive...but better because the Pultec can be used on a wider range of material. At the end of the day, you know you can't keep the C2 so you either have to buy one if you can afford to or find a replacement. I would say the API with a few other enhancement plugs will get you there without failure for way less money. :) -Danny
post edited by Danny Danzi - July 19, 12 8:22 AM
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Re:Put your tricks and tips here!
July 19, 12 8:22 AM
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