Q re: Garritan in Dimension Pro

Would someone be so kind as to give me, or point me to, a "readers digest" sort of an overview of the Garritan Pocket Orchestra features that come with Dimension Pro? I've gathered that this is not the full GPO, but as a newbie to Sonar 6 Studio, looking to add a synthesizer and/or orchestra, will I be sorely disappointed in letting this GPO content sway my decision? I'm working with my 15 yr old son (the one with the musical potential in the family) and would like to give him some realistic orchestral sounds (and cool outofthebox synth sounds) to work with as he develops his interest and love for musical composition. I was considering adding a synthesizer, or an orchestra package to Sonar6SE - but cannot spend more than $200 (more or less). My son has played violin and viola in the school orchestra, but mostly plays guitar and dabbles with keyboards and drums these days. He does love the acoustic sounds of orchestral instruments (his teacher arranges orchestral versions of classic rock songs). My son is by no means highly schooled. or trained, but he seems to pick things up quickly without much instruction. So he doesn't need to have the violin sound like a Stradovarious - just like a violin; ditto for the other instruments.... Comments?
Thanks, Bill

I forgot to mention, the Roland M-OC1 synth is strictly for orchestral sounds, including strings, woodwinds, brass, and perscussion. The strings, brass, and woodwinds have solo and ensemble patches.

I guess I'm perplexed by the love/hate reactions to the Garritan instruments. I've listened to the samples on the Garritan site and thought they sounded great. I've heard Synful Orchestra and was also very impressed - meaning: these are not obviously synthetic instruments to my ears. I understand if the maestros, virtuosos, producers and engineers have higher standards than me, and I will defer to them.

But comparing the DimPro set of Garritan instruments to the full retail complement of the Garritan Pocket Orchestra, can anyone tell me if there is a significant difference that would have me wishing I'd spent my $200 on the Garritan PO (and using TTS-1 as my synth), versus buying Dimension Pro?


Mike, Thanks for the offer and the advice, but I think I'll pass on the Roland.
Mose, Appreciate the feedback.

ORIGINAL: wmatthe
I guess I'm perplexed by the love/hate reactions to the Garritan instruments.

Note that Garritan Pocket Orchestra is different from Garritan Personal Orchestra. Unfortunately, people refer to both as GPO. You have to confirm what people are discussing, because they are quite different. The Personal Orchestra has articulations, which are not found in Pocket Orchestra. You have to work with articulations in any good collection to make it sound realistic. From comments here, it sounds like you have to put extra effort into the Personal Orchestra to get really good results.

As far as quality, it all depends on your needs/desires/standards. There is a continuum of quality from the low end to the high end. I've used the orchestral instruments in TTS-1 a number of times in mixes, and they were great. I've used GPO in Dim Pro, I've used the orchestral instruments in Dim Pro outside of GPO and I've used EWQLSO. They all have their place, and they are not easily interchangeable in the music I've written. When mleghorn and Nick P say that the strings in Dim Pro are not that great, I'd have to agree with them when looking at EWQLSO. However, I'd have to disagree with them when looking at TTS-1.

What you end up buying depends on how much money you have and how strict your requirements are. You have to decide for yourself. Your choices are

TTS-1
Garritan Pocket Orchestra
Garritan Personal Orchestra
Miroslav Philharmonic
Kirk Hunter Orchestral Bundles, Vienna Instruments Collection Vienna Special Edition (Standard and Extended Library) or EastWest/Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra

Roughly in that order (just my opinion). I'm sure that there are other choices that people will add. If your main interest is orchestra, then don't fool around. Head on over to www.soundsonline.com right now and buy the EastWest/Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra Bundle for $445. You can't beat that price for what you get. If you are less ambitious, check out the Miroslav group buy discussed elsewhere on this website. I'm not sure if it's still going on, but I thought the price was around $200. If that's still too much, head on over to www.kirkhunterstudios.com and buy the Sapphire Orchestra for $99. Great sounds and a basic collection of instruments. You can't hardly go wrong.

If you want a collection of basic orchestral instruments and cool sounds, then take a look at Dimension Pro.

EDIT: The Miroslav group buy has ended.

Even with the expansion packs for Dimension Pro, you don't get nearly as comprehensive an orchestral solution as you would get with one of the dedicated pieces. A couple not mentioned by mose are Steinberg's Halion Symphonic Orchestra - sounds real good from the demos, and MOTU's Orchestral Instrument.

What about Miroslav Philharmonik Classik Edition? It's around $200, and again would have way more of a comprehensive orchestral library then Dimension Pro. That's what I would do. Then go with a great synth like Rapture. As far as bread and butter sounds - i.e. piano, organ, electric piano, bass, etc... for now go with the TTS-1. It'll be fine for starters.

Also, wait to see what happens at NAMM this coming week, and then check back in here. Things could radically change, since Cakewalk is announcing a new instrument, and surely they won't be the only one.

Thanks for the continued feedback - I appreciate all the info.

Couple of things (in my never ending quest for bargains):

- I saw an old (2005) thread on the Project 5 board about a "group buy" licensing of (full) Garritan Personal Orchestra (for $139). Anybody know what that was about?

- I mentioned previously my consideration of Academic licensing for Dimension Pro. While looking on eBay for that, I also see an Academic version of Finale 2008 which includes the full GPO. Would that make the GPO accesssible/useful from within Sonar 6?

- Any disadvantage(s) to (legit) Academic licensing? It appears that in some ways you get more stuff with these versions (lessons, tutorials, etc)...

Bill

Jerry,

Thanks for the post! I think I will pay a visit to the Garritan and Finale communities. As I've researched further, I've found that neither Finale nor Sibelius seem to have the Full Garritan Personal Orchestra - rather each has it's own different, "special" version of GPO (bigger than DimPro's, but still not complete). Meanwhile, I have gathered that the Kontkat player can be inserted under Sonar folder and essentially acts as a synth and the GPO instruments become available to Sonar. (If anyone knows for sure, feel free to verify or...)

I had a good deal for Academic Dim Pro on eBay ($125), but it fell through ("...oops, all gone.."). So I'm waiting for replenishment or similar price somewhere else. Now, each time I listen to the DimPro samples I get blown away! I think I'll have more fun with that than GPO (for starters anyhow).

Hello all!

In reading your posts, as usual, there are as many opinions as people writing. Mine will be no different. However, having said that, a violin, a trumpet or any other instrument either sounds like a violin or a trumpet, or it doesn't. I don't want to put down "Pocket Orchestra" by any means, but, except for a few, its instruments sound like the General Midi instruments in the ROM of my keyboard controller. I know instruments, I play several. I've been a conductor and composer all my life. I have perfect active pitch. This is not to be boasting, I am born with it, not my fault :) To my ears, instruments have to sound as they really sound. In Pocket they don't. And, even if some do, as one of you rightly pointed out the trombone, and even oboe to a certain extant, when in combination the results are less than to be desired, to say the least. Very unfortunately, if one needs orchestra s/he has to dish out big money. DAW software can run one's pocket dry. But even if one has the best of the best, things can still sound synthetic if one doesn't have very powerful computers. Just tech reality: there's an awfully lot to process here. Starting with a low end package is all right, just to get your feet wet with the environment, that is, DAW software + combination of instruments/sample player in a multi track setting. But orchestral sound as you know it from concerts and recordings, well, that will have to wait.

Just my two cents.

Sylva.

EDIT: I see your post was written in January. What did you buy since and how are you satisfied? Just curious, because I also am in a financial bind looking for orchestral software.

I think in garritan pocket orchestra harp,harpsicord,and glockenspiel and flute are maybe best sounds in this product. and there is silly bug in glockenspiel i think sounds wrong notes. i all other sounds are concert pitch. I currently thinking buying something for orchestral sounds. based garritan pocket orchestra i think not buying garritan personal orchestra think this sounds little dark maybe.

If I was going for a first orchestral module, I'd go with Miroslav. It just seems well-designed to do that thing really well. There's a "lite" version which now seems to be on sale for $99. I'm not thrilled with the warmth of the strings on the demo, but you could definitely MIDI mock-up pretty much anything with it I think. I would go for the Kirk Hunter strings, but as a first, simple piece, I'd choose Miroslav.

I was planning to get Sonar8 (pro) when that comes out, specifically for the included instruments dimpro (and in that, garritan), and because I don't have a sequencer anyway (I've been recording audio through some freeware thing for a while, and have loads of ideas of where to take it, with no way of making those sounds). Now this discussion is changing my mind majorly. I was of the impression that dimpro is what you get for the nice real instruments, but that seems way off..

If what you want is real-sounding orchestra type instruments, and things like drum (not just loops) and bass, to mix with real audio material - what are you better off getting? I figured the place I'd cheap out would be my midi-controller - I have an old keyboard with midi see, but nothing in the way of pitch and mod wheels, and I'm coming to realise those things are important if you don't just want ok sounding drawn out strings or whatever in your songs. If you want good expressive stuff - are you better off getting a decent controller (and what would be the name of one?), Garritan Personal, (what exactly, for more rock-style drum and bass types of sounds?), and maybe a not totally new and therefore less pricey sequencer? And also, what sequencer would you need then, for use with Garritan, something else, and real audio?

Hoping this thread isn't dead.

If what you want is real-sounding orchestra type instruments, and things like drum (not just loops) and bass, to mix with real audio material - what are you better off getting?

The instruments that come bundled with Sonar are sufficient for those needs. The Pocket Orchestra instruments are good enough for pop - they won't hold up for classical, however.

I figured the place I'd cheap out would be my midi-controller - I have an old keyboard with midi see, but nothing in the way of pitch and mod wheels, and I'm coming to realise those things are important if you don't just want ok sounding drawn out strings or whatever in your songs. If you want good expressive stuff - are you better off getting a decent controller (and what would be the name of one?),

Axiom and M-Audio both make decent, inexpensive controllers with a ton of real-time control. You have to have the controllers unless you want to be editing all the controller information in Sonar after-the-fact.

Garritan Personal, (what exactly, for more rock-style drum and bass types of sounds?),

The other Dim Pro sounds will so nicely for rock sounds. If not Sonar, then there are lots of libraries out there - I can't speak to them because Rock's not my genre.

and maybe a not totally new and therefore less pricey sequencer? And also, what sequencer would you need then, for use with Garritan, something else, and real audio?

There are a couple of less pricey sequencers on the market. I used Power Tracks Pro Audio before switching to Sonar.

Hoping this thread isn't dead.

Not until everyone, including you, says it is.